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4 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2009 - 11:29AM
#91
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-Yeah, me and MT already had a conversation like that:
Also, Shar being multi-spheric doesn't neccessarily invalidate the FR creation myths - it merely broadens the playing field. If selune is also multi-spheric (and well she should be), then the creation myth extends to the entire mutli-verse, and not just Realmspace.
-It does depending on the math and the numbers that one chooses to use. If one decides to take Shar's creation as happening "some time in time", ambiguously, there is no problem. If one decides to take Shar's creation as happening within a set time, or within a set time span, as some claim to do, then problems begin to arise. In order for these numbers to be correct, they would have to be checked against any other places that Shar might exist. So far, we know of two- Abeir-Toril, and the world of Ephyras. Since we know very little about Ephyras- and nothing about any other theoretical worlds she existed in- the math cannot be checked out, and it remains a now weakened hypothesis.
-We know that the creation of Shar, Selûne, and the others cannot have been "multiverse wide", as Ao only has complete sovereignty in Realmspace. The closest "linkage" that can be made, seemingly, would be that all across the multiverse, many pantheons and Crystal Spheres have deities (or other entities) that claim to be the harbingers of ultimate doom and destruction, much like Shar.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2009 - 12:43PM
#92
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You have to start somewhere. Why not toril?
I don't see any real reason why Selune would go to other worlds very often. She is happy to take care of things back home. Shar, meanwhile, is doing "practice runs" for what she hopes to eventually do to the realms, in places where Selune et al won't get in her way.
Perhaps her interplanar conquests are the reason that she lost sway over some things in the realms, allowing Mystra to turn good and mask to get away from her while she wasn't paying attention.
I'm pretty OK with having a very non-strict chronology associated with this kind of business. It's already been hinted by somebody that the Dawn Cataclysm takes place in a sense "outside of time," making it hard to untangle the effects that are observed on Toril which may or may not be related to it (Aumanator's death and rebirth, the split of Tyche, etc) and some of which seem to occur on a cyclical recurring basis. If things with shar work the same way it might by why everybody seems to know about her allegedly upcoming moment of weakness.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2009 - 4:28PM
#93
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Or we could just say that Shar is full of it, about being multi-spheric, and ignore it altogether... :D
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4 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2009 - 5:37PM
#94
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SHAR is to powerful and should be disposed of
Amuanator take you beech
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
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4 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2009 - 8:42PM
#95
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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Taco? 
Well, still haven't properly edited my photos yet, so this is what we get. People!! The current status of these boards: POP ON!
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4 years ago ::
Feb 20, 2009 - 9:13PM
#96
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Or we could just say that Shar is full of it, about being multi-spheric, and ignore it altogether... :D
-It's not just Shar claiming to be. There's some pretty good proof, with her statues in the Fane of Shadows, and with her Shadowstorm engulfing the world of Ephyras. There's a possibility that both aren't related to Shar being multispheric, but if it looks like a dog, and smells like a dog...
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4 years ago ::
Feb 21, 2009 - 12:04AM
#97
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Feh, she could just be making it up and deluding others into spreading the tales. As to statues, who's to say she isn't borrowing her appearance from those statues to make herself look better. Or that she's claiming credit for that Shadowstorm engulfing some place I've never heard of when really she has nothing to do with it... just some deluded author glorifying her name when she's really nothing when it comes down to it. 
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4 years ago ::
Feb 21, 2009 - 5:06AM
#98
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Ed Greenwood said that Faerûnian scholars believe the crystal sphere of Realmspace to have been created by Ao about 75,000 years ago. Ed went on to qualify that he was not necessarily attesting to the ultimate truth of the dating, but that it is the age upon which most sages agree. Assuming that Faerûn's sages tend to be pretty savvy about such things, I will use that as our "best guess" for the age of Realmspace.
If so, then Shar & Selûne could be around 75,000 years old (give or take). Shar had established her divine dominion within the Shadow Plane. The Shadow Plane, at least back at that time, touched upon all the alternate worlds and realities. It seems almost certain that Shar recruited fiends and dark gods from those other worlds to wage the War of Light & Darkness against her sister Selûne and Chauntea. In fact it was probably Shar who introduced the cosmos to the various fiends and archfiends that came to take up residence within the cosmology.
Given her history, it seems likely that Shar spent at least some of her time before the War of Light & Darkness exploring the various worlds and alternate realities that she had access to through the Shadow Plane. It is likely that she manifested avatars and/or fostered worship of herself on these far-flung worlds. Maybe she even consumed or slew a few native gods of darkness and subsumed their worshipper bases.
It seems likely therefore that Shar could have been both born of Realmspace and also a multispheric god having established herself on many other worlds in the many ages since her Realmsian origin some 75,000 years ago (give or take).
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4 years ago ::
Feb 21, 2009 - 11:01AM
#99
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It seems likely therefore that Shar could have been both born of Realmspace and also a multispheric god having established herself on many other worlds in the many ages since her Realmsian origin some 75,000 years ago (give or take).
-Her birth and presence as a multispheric deity is not being challenged; as I said, as all of that works out. The birth of Realmspace as having happened circa -76,000 DR is. In order for timeline to be correct, it would have to be checked against the world of Ephyras, where we know Shar exists/existed, and is in the process of consuming, and any other theoretical worlds that Shar exists/existed in, in a similar manner, if any. Given that, with an theoretical infinite amount of possible worlds that Shar could have existed in, the likelihood that Realmspace's birth (and Shar's birth) at around -76,000 DR drops substantially, as this number would have to be checked and verified against any and all of the theoretical worlds that Shar exists/existed in.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 21, 2009 - 11:49AM
#100
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Yeah, and Terran scholars thought that the Earth was maybe 5,000 to 15,000 years old, and look how that one turned out...
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