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Dungeons & Dra.. D&D Insider Character Builder Needs to be able to run on a Mac
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2008 - 10:16PM #11
Trathor
Date Joined: Nov 23, 2008
Posts: 84

mudbunny wrote:

Eight now, WOtC is playing the odds that is going to bring them more money and customers. The userbase that has a windows-based PC is much, much higher than that that currently uses Macs. Thus, it only makes sense for them to aim towards the market that will bring them the most money. Once they have the bugs worked out, and the program is running well, I do fully expect them to work on porting it over to Mac computers. However, until then, it looks like it will require some sort of Windows Emulator for Macs and *nix based machines.


You need to be careful when reading marketing info. It is mostly spin. Like the info you provided above.

You know how they decide if it is a "high-end" machine?? By the price. And seeing how Mac generally cost a significant amount more than PCs, it appears that the 50% is a meaningful number, when it actually isn't. The number of PCs available (not sold, but simply available for purchase) at the higher price ranges favoured by Macs is much, much lower than the number of macs available at comparable prices. This isn't due to popularity, it is simply due to the fact that PCs simply don't cost as much as macs.


When you say the user base is much much higher, I wonder how that can be fully appreciated... since the software provided has almost always been PC-only... that is to say, if you were to look at the userbase, you have already singled out Mac-only users.

I don't know what their numbers are... maybe they don't make it publicly available, but my guess is the percentage of the user-base that would prefer to use a Mac over a PC for this type of thing would be similar to World of Warcraft. My expectation is there would still be more PC users, but when I used to play (before kicking the habit - 18 months sober now thank you very much), I was surprised at the significant number of people who had both platforms at home, and preferred playing WoW on the Mac.

I agree most marketing info is spin... on both sides. I also don't buy the "Macs are much more expensive" argument - for every article stating they are more expensive, I can find a compelling one that says they are not... not that really pertains to this thread anyway - in the end (per my post above) Apple appears to be increasing the rate of sales more than other computer companies in the last decade or so... which is why I feel justified in making a post saying Macs should be more supported with programs such as this.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2008 - 10:37PM #12
Trathor
Date Joined: Nov 23, 2008
Posts: 84

WolfStar76 wrote:

Keep in mind that you, for reasons of your own, chose the Macintosh platform. I find it unlikely that you made that investment without being aware that the bulk of commercial software, past, present, and (forseeable) future simply doesn't support that platform

WotC isn't singling YOU out as a customer, they're simply following what market research told them was the best course of action - which was to focus their time, money, and efforts on development for Windows.

You also make the curious statement about finding another RPG that makes you feel more welcome. Do you have one in mind that has made a Macintosh based character generator?


Off the top of my head, PC Gen is a great Character Generator. Of course, if Wizards is going to be hostile to 3rd party developers, who is going to want to make 4E anything until they are sure Wizards is not going to sink them? For me, I could go back to 3.5 with little remorse... heck, there are still things I liked better about 2E.

If I was to walk away from 4E, I would likely either go back to one of those... or go with Paizo's Pathfinder... maybe Warhammer... really any platform that does not make me feel specifically put out on the street for being a Mac user.

I would even be fine with "we only have limited dollars, and while we would love to develop for all platforms, we only can hire 2 programmers who don't know how to program in a way that allows access for non-windows users. We appreciate your business and hope that we will someday be able to provide support for your platform of choice as well."

Instead it feels more like Mac users are specifically being snubbed - I say this having talked with a D&D game designer in a convention in the past (who was presenting some 3E material before 3E came out) - noting he was using a Mac, I asked him about Wizards and being Mac friendly - to which his response was he did not know why, but there seems to be some bias against Macs engrained in the Wizards culture.

Hence, part of the reason why I felt I needed to post - if only to give a brief reminder that there are users out there that not only want support on the Mac Platform, but who lose joy in the game when they feel like they are being shunted.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 23, 2008 - 11:33PM #13
GMforPowergamers
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Date Joined: Apr 10, 2006
Posts: 3,131
in this weekks podcast David Noonin said he agrees with the pro mac support...
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2008 - 1:02AM #14
Cailte
Date Joined: Aug 18, 2007
Posts: 8,276

mudbunny wrote:

Eight now, WOtC is playing the odds that is going to bring them more money and customers. The userbase that has a windows-based PC is much, much higher than that that currently uses Macs.


Indeed they are, but given that a cross platform engine would have given them access to the whole market, I'm kind of confused by the decision.

Heck as they mention in the current Podcast, they could have designed it to also be mobile device friendly as well.... because if you want to talk the future of computing it is in mobile devices.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2008 - 7:44AM #15
WolfStar76
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Trathor wrote:

Off the top of my head, PC Gen is a great Character Generator. Of course, if Wizards is going to be hostile to 3rd party developers, who is going to want to make 4E anything until they are sure Wizards is not going to sink them? For me, I could go back to 3.5 with little remorse... heck, there are still things I liked better about 2E.

If I was to walk away from 4E, I would likely either go back to one of those... or go with Paizo's Pathfinder... maybe Warhammer... really any platform that does not make me feel specifically put out on the street for being a Mac user.

I would even be fine with "we only have limited dollars, and while we would love to develop for all platforms, we only can hire 2 programmers who don't know how to program in a way that allows access for non-windows users. We appreciate your business and hope that we will someday be able to provide support for your platform of choice as well."

Instead it feels more like Mac users are specifically being snubbed - I say this having talked with a D&D game designer in a convention in the past (who was presenting some 3E material before 3E came out) - noting he was using a Mac, I asked him about Wizards and being Mac friendly - to which his response was he did not know why, but there seems to be some bias against Macs engrained in the Wizards culture.

Hence, part of the reason why I felt I needed to post - if only to give a brief reminder that there are users out there that not only want support on the Mac Platform, but who lose joy in the game when they feel like they are being shunted.


It's worth noting that many people inside WotC are Mac fans. Scott Rouse, who I believe is D&D Brand Manager (I forget his exact title, so I may be off) is a Mac user, in fact, and his R&D presentation at DDXP earlier this year was projected off his Mac.

Someone else (Noonan?) recently posted a Dragon article on how to manage all the files for your campaign, and the screenshots he provided were from his Mac.

So it isn't a matter of Mac being snubbed, per se (though, as someone with a Mac in my home, I can see how it would feel that way) - it's a matter of having limited funds, and unfortunately not being able to please everyone with those funds.

Windows, for most companies, is still the "best bet" for successful software - it still has the broadest installed support base, period.

Please note, that I strongly support the idea that Wizards should provided cross-platform support ASAP (out of the gate would have been nice, but it just wasn't in the cards, apparently).

My post was more to peel away some of what I felt to be hyperbole. Wizards isn't calling you up to say "HA! We don't want your dirty MAC money!" It's simply an issue that they've chosen (at this time) to focus on the broader Windows market. The unfortunate side effect of that is that it does leave some customers out, but they had their reasons for this choice.

By all means, keep reminding them that there are Mac and Linux fans out there - all of whom have chosen their platforms for their own reasons. I, personally, would just ask that you be careful how you deliver the message. You don't want to appear overly emotional in your request, or else it (unfortunately) can be easy to "write you off" as someone who can't be reasoned with.

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2008 - 7:52AM #16
Kursk
Date Joined: Mar 11, 2003
Posts: 3,189

GrahamWills wrote:

Actually, the current marketing information show that over 50% of high-end laptops sold are macs.


Actually, that is based on price. Macs cost more for the same performance. Macs still only make up ~3-4% of personal computers in use. Ergo, not large enough mkt share to develop for.

If someone wants a PC app to run on a Mac maybe they should be willing to pay for the added dev costs?

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2008 - 8:15AM #17
Trathor
Date Joined: Nov 23, 2008
Posts: 84

WolfStar76 wrote:

It's worth noting that many people inside WotC are Mac fans. Scott Rouse, who I believe is D&D Brand Manager (I forget his exact title, so I may be off) is a Mac user, in fact, and his R&D presentation at DDXP earlier this year was projected off his Mac.

Someone else (Noonan?) recently posted a Dragon article on how to manage all the files for your campaign, and the screenshots he provided were from his Mac.

So it isn't a matter of Mac being snubbed, per se (though, as someone with a Mac in my home, I can see how it would feel that way) - it's a matter of having limited funds, and unfortunately not being able to please everyone with those funds.

Windows, for most companies, is still the "best bet" for successful software - it still has the broadest installed support base, period.

Please note, that I strongly support the idea that Wizards should provided cross-platform support ASAP (out of the gate would have been nice, but it just wasn't in the cards, apparently).

My post was more to peel away some of what I felt to be hyperbole. Wizards isn't calling you up to say "HA! We don't want your dirty MAC money!" It's simply an issue that they've chosen (at this time) to focus on the broader Windows market. The unfortunate side effect of that is that it does leave some customers out, but they had their reasons for this choice.

By all means, keep reminding them that there are Mac and Linux fans out there - all of whom have chosen their platforms for their own reasons. I, personally, would just ask that you be careful how you deliver the message. You don't want to appear overly emotional in your request, or else it (unfortunately) can be easy to "write you off" as someone who can't be reasoned with.


Thanks Wolfstar, your post eases my angst somewhat!

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5 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2008 - 9:08AM #18
NethergateTemplar
Date Joined: Mar 7, 2006
Posts: 9
Agree with the OP. I would love for this to run on Mac. I don't think the argument here is which platform is better. To each his own i say.
The point is that if this had been developed dual platform it would have impacted a larger customer base. Much bigger than 3%-4% increase I'd wager.
So we can hope that they eventually see the light and release a Mac version.

In the meantime CharBuilder will be the sole reason i that i have a PC partition on my Mac. Every game/program i own (which is alot) runs on both Mac and PC except for CharBuilder.
My PC will keep its resting place as a doorstop/end table for my office.
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2008 - 9:13AM #19
mudbunny
Date Joined: Sep 28, 2006
Posts: 8,805
I believe that they will eventually release the tools for Macs. However, I understand why they did the primary development for PCs. I could see a software company, who is very experienced with developping software on multiple platforms at once doing so. WotC however, is not such a beast. It is much safer for them to develop for one platform, and then, once it goes gold, to work on porting it over to macs.
Mudbunny
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5 years ago  ::  Nov 24, 2008 - 9:24AM #20
Onysablet
Date Joined: Jul 11, 2008
Posts: 19
Another Mac user here. Also agree with it needing to run dual platform. But arguing about it won't help. Neither will snide replies like WolfStar's "that's just the way it is, get over it" comment. We would never need any new options or innovations if we all just shut our mouths and settled for the way it is.

Raising awareness to the actual number of Mac users in the RPG market WILL help. Keep the thread rolling.

Peace.
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