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Switch to Forum Live View No More PDF Downloading?
4 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2009 - 1:41PM #51
lokiare
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2008
Posts: 14,716
PDF sales are an easy way for a company like this to make money. Once you get past the initial creation cost (which if they make hard copies is covered) there is really nothing but a negligible distributions cost (which doesn't even go over a dollar). This shows that it would actually be more cost effective to produce PDFs. Also watermarking them as each department receives them is also a good idea and can be implemented on a shared server. Each time someone opens the file from the server it watermarks to their terminal/ID.

I'm sure someone with more time than me could find several surveys and studies that prove not releasing PDFs does not in any way curb pirating. If we can get this information to WotC maybe the can use it as an argument to Hasbro to get their PDFs reinstated.

From what I can see PDFs don't hurt sales in any meaningful way. I use them to browse through content and do word and phrase searches, and then I read the results in context, which is something the compendium cannot do. If I pull up a monster, I can't see what other monsters go with it, I can't see tactics, I also can't see the description or anything that is outside the monster stat block.

If you search a PDF, you can look through the other monsters, tactics, description, and anything else there is.

IMO they seriously messed up when they stopped the PDF sales, from any perspective you like: money, customer loyalty, curbing piracy, or any other standpoint.
Look here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. I'm looking for players for a 4E fantasy grounds game.Swallowed Lich's Implement, help please.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 18, 2009 - 2:38PM #52
PyroMancer2k
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Jun 10, 2008
Posts: 745

lokiare wrote:

I'm sure someone with more time than me could find several surveys and studies that prove not releasing PDFs does not in any way curb pirating. If we can get this information to WotC maybe the can use it as an argument to Hasbro to get their PDFs reinstated.


Actually it increases piracy. Because it doesn't effect the people that are currently pirating it as they will simply revert to scans of the book. And those who wanted to purchase it legally no longer can so they are forced to pirate a copy.

At most all this does is delay the release of the pirate PDF by a few weeks giving someone time to scan it and post it on the net.

Making something illegal doesn't actually stop it from happening or being produced. In fact in many cases I've seen studies that show the opposite is true. Because of the old laws of supply and demand. When something becomes illegal at first it does become a bit scarcer but soon after thanks to it being illegal they can charge outrageous prices for it. So soon a ton of people looking to make quick money with no regard for the law join in. And because black market economies work slightly different due to limited number of distributors things tend to work more like a monopoly as they can charge whatever they want. But the overall supply is not as effected as many would like us to believe.

Now some may say there is no money in PDFs on torrent sites so this is not an accurate comparison. Well first off it is more to show the faulty logic behind you can stop trading by making it illegal. And secondly it does still apply to PDF and torrents because there is money in torrenting.

The money from torrents comes in the same way TV stations make their money, from advertising. Almost every site on the net now a days has ads and torrent sites would be no exception. I've even heard some charge subscription fees which is yet another way they could make money.

So with people unable to purchase their PDFs they start visiting more torrent sites looking for the PDFs. This increases the site's ad revenue because it has more viewers. As the potential for ad revenue increases more people wanna get in on the hosting of their own torrent sites. Thus both the consumers and suppliers of torrented PDFs increases and thus overall piracy increases.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 12:06PM #53
lokiare
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2008
Posts: 14,716
Yes, but can you actually throw some links up to those studies? that way WotC has some numbers they can look at?
Look here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. I'm looking for players for a 4E fantasy grounds game.Swallowed Lich's Implement, help please.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 2:44PM #54
Orcboss
Date Joined: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 326

lokiare wrote:

Yes, but can you actually throw some links up to those studies? that way WotC has some numbers they can look at?


Honestly, I doubt that it would matter. If there was a genuine question of how all of it affects the business, I'm sure someone at Hasbro has numbers they could share. I admit I'm doing some armchair-lawyering, but I'd wager this is part of the legal strategy involved in going after the "worst offenders".

"Your honor, it was so bad, we had to just shut down all pdf sales. That alone increases our economic damage by $X."

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a "reading room" kind of program as a part of DDI once this blows over. Maybe a service similar to what Marvel does with its digital comics.

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4 years ago  ::  Jul 19, 2009 - 4:00PM #55
lokiare
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2008
Posts: 14,716

Orcboss wrote:

Honestly, I doubt that it would matter. If there was a genuine question of how all of it affects the business, I'm sure someone at Hasbro has numbers they could share. I admit I'm doing some armchair-lawyering, but I'd wager this is part of the legal strategy involved in going after the "worst offenders".

"Your honor, it was so bad, we had to just shut down all pdf sales. That alone increases our economic damage by $X."

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see a "reading room" kind of program as a part of DDI once this blows over. Maybe a service similar to what Marvel does with its digital comics.


The problem is that it won't blow over unless they find an uncrackable format for their DRM version of the books. Really the PSP encryption scheme from sony has yet to be broken (the memory card one not the UMD one). If they got their hands on something like that, and made screen shots and whatnot impossible (by scanning the running programs and any program on a big list of screenshot programs are running, it gives an error and dies) then they could do it, as it is there is no way they will stop because they are part of a corporation and a corporations job is the find the most profit for the least resistance which means D&D is dying and will eventually go the way of dinosaurs and console repairmen.

Look here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. I'm looking for players for a 4E fantasy grounds game.Swallowed Lich's Implement, help please.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2009 - 2:05PM #56
starfleet
Date Joined: Sep 3, 2003
Posts: 22
problem is that 'print scrn' is actually a windows function.. and works with just about everything..

They could use the Adobe Digital Book format.. the same one that is used by enovels and the like and requires the authorised reader.. while the 'format' is still pdf the encryption is completely diffrent and i've not seen that cracked yet.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2009 - 3:59PM #57
Orcboss
Date Joined: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 326
I didn't say any of them were good ideas, just that they wouldn't surprise me. The music industry has backed off DRM and is having a lot of trouble with civil cases they expected to be slam dunks. I just think whoever made this call is behind the learning curve. They've opted to take all-of-none as their revenue instead of some-of-all.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2009 - 4:01PM #58
ltm3x6
Date Joined: Jun 21, 2009
Posts: 4
is there any way to contact wizards with suggestions and direct questions about the situation?
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2009 - 5:00PM #59
lokiare
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2008
Posts: 14,716

starfleet wrote:

problem is that 'print scrn' is actually a windows function.. and works with just about everything..

They could use the Adobe Digital Book format.. the same one that is used by enovels and the like and requires the authorised reader.. while the 'format' is still pdf the encryption is completely diffrent and i've not seen that cracked yet.


Yeah, but checking for printscreen button hits and clearing the clipboard right after is not.

Look here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. I'm looking for players for a 4E fantasy grounds game.Swallowed Lich's Implement, help please.
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4 years ago  ::  Jul 20, 2009 - 8:25PM #60
Dalzig
Date Joined: Dec 31, 2007
Posts: 3,272

lokiare wrote:

Yeah, but checking for printscreen button hits and clearing the clipboard right after is not.


Okay, then someone writes a hook for the OS that catches the printscreen key, copies the page, and deletes the keypress from the buffer. Then someone automates it. Boom, instant digital copy.

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