It is charity. I don't send money to a cable company I'm not subscribed to hoping they'll hook up FIOS cause I do it. Giving someone money and just hoping they'll make a product you want is charity. the VTT was part of the initial package sold with the idea of DDI back when 4th ed was released, it had huge initial interest and they squandered it. Expecting people to pay monthly for another year? two? on the off chance they make the tool they should have delivered a year ago? That fits the definition of charity. Voting with your pocketbook only applies to paying for an actual product you use.
I don't think that anyone is talking about charity. (Or at least I am not, I can't speak for others.) I think that the difference in people's opinions is a great deal influenced by the personality of the person and how they feel in general towards WotC, and maybe a bit on how patient they are in general. I tend to be a very patient and forgiving person. Some would say too much, but it is a part of my personality. As such, I am willing to give WotC a lot of time and latitude (rope??) to work on the tools. The quality of the Character Builder and Compendium are (to me, others may feel differently, and there is nothing wrong with that) good enough that I am wiling to allow WotC to shuffle things around.
For me, the Campaign Builder will be just as useful (if not moreso) that the VTT, so I like the fact that they will be putting it out first and are giving it attention now. I fully expect the knowledge and experience they gain from this to have only a good effect on the VTT.
That being said, there comes a point where WotC will need to "put up or shut up". For me, WotC is a *long* way from that place. However, I can easily understand how others may feel differently, and I don't begrudge them their opinion.
That being said, there comes a point where WotC will need to "put up or shut up". For me, WotC is a *long* way from that place. However, I can easily understand how others may feel differently, and I don't begrudge them their opinion.
On the one hand, I agree with Aberzanzorax - giving money to WotC because they might finish the GameTable is a foolish reason to give them money. And I think that the ex-Wizards employee who said that is recommending a foolish path, whatever his experience with Wizards.
On the other hand, I'm a happy subscriber and cheerfully pay for the stuff I'm getting right now. I'm not paying for the Table (I mean, I might be...but I'm not sending them money strictly to finish the gametable; that would be dumb).
The lesson I draw from that is: if you don't care about the stuff you can get right now (magazines, builder, etc.) or don't want any of that stuff, then you really, really should not give Wizards your money. On the other hand, if you think the builder, magazines, and other junk is worth money? Then buy it.
As far as progress on new tools goes, I'm already at the "put up or shut up" point as far as Wizards is concerned. They've filled the Internet with enough surveys, discussions, 'tell us what you thinks,' and navel-gazing that they ought to be able to move forward without handholding from the customer base. I grow bored with it - show me a prototype, or something.
But, as far as my money goes? They've put up, in the form of the Builder, the Compendium, and the Magazines.
It is charity. I don't send money to a cable company I'm not subscribed to hoping they'll hook up FIOS cause I do it. Giving someone money and just hoping they'll make a product you want is charity. the VTT was part of the initial package sold with the idea of DDI back when 4th ed was released, it had huge initial interest and they squandered it. Expecting people to pay monthly for another year? two? on the off chance they make the tool they should have delivered a year ago? That fits the definition of charity. Voting with your pocketbook only applies to paying for an actual product you use.
Voting with your pocketbook works two ways.
Lets use the internet. Right now, pricing plans are a flat rate. Pay X to get Y.
But what if your cable company announced plans to change their pricing structure. Use the internet X amount, pay Y amount. On top of that, you will get charged for going to low traffic sites. So, your time and what you look at is how you are now billed.
You let your internet provider know that if they go with this new plan, you will cancel your account and go with a different service provider.
Speaking with your money works in this case. The product/service exists, you've been using it, and now they want to change it.
If enough people threaten to discontinue service, the internet provider will change it's mind. Better to make some money, then no money.
DDi will exists, with or without the VTT, however the reverse is not true, unless WoTC resturctures thier business model and drops the idea of DDi in favore of just a VTT, which isn't going to happen.
So, DDi isn't and never was intended to be just the VTT, though it was the most dynamic and exciting aspect, for many people. Personaly going with tools to help making DMing easier, is a smart choice. The ratio of players to DM is always on the side of the players, and most of the product they make, are for the players to have more options.
But with no DM, what good are a million player options? DMs can be hard to find, and a good one even rarer. While your personal experience might be different, you might be lucky to be in a group where people take turns DMing, we can safely assume, that's not true for a majority of players. No one in my group is interested in DMing.
So if WoTC can make more people want to DM, the game grows. One new DM could equal 2-4 new players. One new player is most likely going to seek out existing players.
So back to DDi. That is the product which is comprised of several tools and features. Character Builder, Magazines, online compendium, some bonus tools, and features yet to come.
If DDi doesn't make money, then not only will the VTT never come, but all those tools go away as well. It's a total package.
In this case, the products that bring WoTC more money, get the most attention, the products that bring in the least amount of money, get dumped when the budget needs to be adjusted.
So in cases like this, when you "vote" with your pocketbook, you are basically telling WoTC, I don't want to spend money on this.
Which would be fine if the VTT wasn't tied directly to DDi. Since they are linked, all you end up doing is killing the VTT, by killing DDI.
However like I said. If all you want is the VTT, then don't subscribe. No one is asking you spend money on tools you will never use.
However, if you think that there is something of value in what DDi currently has, even though what you really want is the VTT, and $5-8 dollars isn't a hardship for you, then why not subscribe, and help the VTT become a reality faster?
However, if you think that there is something of value in what DDi currently has, even though what you really want is the VTT, and $5-8 dollars isn't a hardship for you, then why not subscribe, and help the VTT become a reality faster?
That's pretty much what I'm doing, but aware of how many subscribers there actually are...well, that's why I'm saying 2010, at this point. We need more subscribers, because the more money put in, the better.
Of course, that being said, they should still be able to drop a beta version of the Visualizer on us subscribers, since it's in a workable state, and that'd attract more subscribers, which would in turn speed up development on that Visualizer as they're able to hire more staff/pay more overtime.
That's pretty much what I'm doing, but aware of how many subscribers there actually are...well, that's why I'm saying 2010, at this point. We need more subscribers, because the more money put in, the better.
Of course, that being said, they should still be able to drop a beta version of the Visualizer on us subscribers, since it's in a workable state, and that'd attract more subscribers, which would in turn speed up development on that Visualizer as they're able to hire more staff/pay more overtime.
You know, some form of Character visualizer, would be good. Now the CV to me seemed more for the VTT, a way to make an awesome, one of the kind mini to play with on the VTT. They sort of went hand in glove.
So, can they take the CV, and make it stand alone (Because I bet right now, it's tied into the VTT) so that players can make a visual representation of their character? Then export as a portrait.
I have an iPhone app that allows me to apply various styles of photography to pictures I've taken, add a filter like that. So you can have different art styles for the portrait.
I know that WoW made it so that you could have a 3D model of your character. Is that possible with this? I know it was exspensive. But wouldn't that be cool? Make your own mini for real table top.
Sorry, I am a DDI subscriber and I cannot get on board with that. I subscribed only after the Character Builder came out. You should never pay for something on the hopes that something that is not out yet becomes a reality or on the hopes that a company will deliver something that you are interested in. They just are not offering something that a person wants is all. When they do, hopefully that person will pay for it then.
Your cable analogy works because the cable company had a product that the customer wanted in the first place. Then they changed or took that product away (however you look at it).
Companies know that they have to put out money to create a product. They know that it doesn't work to get money first and then deliver a product to a consumer.
However, I do agree that if you find value in the offerrings right now, you should pay up. If they cannot recoup their development costs (on what they have delivered) and make money on top of that, everthing goes away.
Now if that happens, that does not mean it is the customers fault. It may mean that the product was bad or that the company was not giving their customers what they wanted.
WOTC Podcast: "The web is a shortcut" "Piracy was a big thing"
That's pretty much what I'm doing, but aware of how many subscribers there actually are...well, that's why I'm saying 2010, at this point. We need more subscribers, because the more money put in, the better.
Of course, that being said, they should still be able to drop a beta version of the Visualizer on us subscribers, since it's in a workable state, and that'd attract more subscribers, which would in turn speed up development on that Visualizer as they're able to hire more staff/pay more overtime.
As much as I hate to say it, I don't think that they should drop a Beta on us until it is essentially in the very final bug-fixing stage. The difficulty of extracting the constructive criticism of it from the mass of "I coulda done this on my lunch-hour" and "QUIT NOW" complaints would, IMO, be far more trouble than it would be worth.
Sorry, I am a DDI subscriber and I cannot get on board with that. I subscribed only after the Character Builder came out. You should never pay for something on the hopes that something that is not out yet becomes a reality or on the hopes that a company will deliver something that you are interested in. They just are not offering something that a person wants is all. When they do, hopefully that person will pay for it then.
Your cable analogy works because the cable company had a product that the customer wanted in the first place. Then they changed or took that product away (however you look at it).
Companies know that they have to put out money to create a product. They know that it doesn't work to get money first and then deliver a product to a consumer.
However, I do agree that if you find value in the offerrings right now, you should pay up. If they cannot recoup their development costs (on what they have delivered) and make money on top of that, everthing goes away.
Now if that happens, that does not mean it is the customers fault. It may mean that the product was bad or that the company was not giving their customers what they wanted.
I was very clear. If DDI offers you nothing you want, save the VTT, then don't subscribe. How simple can that be?
Companies do have to put up the money to develope the product. This isn't a case of, we should pay them to first make the VTT. Unfortunitly for this product, it's out and not with the VTT. Since they couldn't make it what they wanted, they lowered the costs.
I'm just saying, if DDi goes, so does any chance of the VTT.
Voting with your pocketbook in this case only tells WoTC, and Hasbro, this product doesn't make money.
The higher ups won't look and see that players aren't subscribing to DDi because of the VTT, they will just look and see it isn't making money.
And if they see it isn't making money, they won't say they need to change directions, they will cut and run. They won't care why. TRUST me. The higher ups and money men don't care if the project was mismanaged, they bit off more then they could choose or any other reasons.
That's how corporations works.
So it comes down to a choice. If all you want is the VTT, don't subscribe.
If you like what they currently offer and want the VTT, it's not hurting you to subscribe. The promise not to raise the rate when more tools come out is something you might come to appreciate later. They might also at some point reward players who have had long term subscriptions with free stuff.
