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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 8:15AM
#341
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2007
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It's disappointing they didn't deliver, we don't have to like it, we don't even have to forgive them. But we did know from before 4E release date that the electronic goodies were going to be late, that some were a year or more off. So let's try to keep a bit of perspective in our rants.
You make a good point Curt, but you have to consider that not everyone knew that the goodies were going to be late. Not everyone is as plugged in as many of us here are.
That kid who just got his parents to shell out over $100 for the base books looks at the back of the PH and sees all these goodies that seemingly are available.
Trouble is, they are not.
So, perhaps, it is back to World of Warcraft for him, and we've lost (at least for a while) another of the next generation of gamers.
I have a hard time putting a thieving template on the WotC division in this matter, it just does not seem to fit for me, although obviously for others it does. What concerns me more than anything is the WotC divisions continued inability to communicate and work to stamp down these little fires that keep popping up.
One of the latest ones was generated by the wording (what was left out, actually) of a WotC release. A simple clarification, and multiple pages of a divisive thread here are stopped dead in their tracks.
But that is not happening. And that is why I have a concern for the future of D&D, under Hasbro.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 12:56PM
#342
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2004
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Hindsight being 20/20 they probably should have just hired a reputable outside company to create all these products. Had they released a complete set of tools one year ago, they could have subscribers paying full price the entire time. Let's say 20k subscribers paying $15 a month that is a lot of revenue (I have no idea what the actual amount of subscribers are, but 20k seems low enough).
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 7:42PM
#343
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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Hi all,
About a year ago, I heard about the new 4E tools, and saw the demo on YouTube. Looked awesome, but I was hesitant to shell out the money for 4E core books, not to mention the monthly subscription fee.
I just bought the 4E core books (about $100 -- Yuck!). In the back are advertisements for DDI which appear to show the Character Visualizer and Game Table. Clearly, the implication is that if you subscribe to DDI, you'll have access to these tools.
Therefore, I just signed up for a 1-year subscription to DDI (about $60), downloaded/installed the Character Builder... and then noticed the "Character Visualizer" button was greyed out. On the right side of the window was the message, "You must have the Character Visualizer installed for this to function." So I went back to the DDI website, clicked on the Character Builder button, and looked for the "Download the Character Visualizer software here" link. Nothing.
It was at this point that I realized that the Character Builder and Character Visualizer were two different software applications (up until this point, I assumed that the Character Visualizer was built into the Character Builder, and that I just needed to subscribe to DDI in order to "unlock" this feature). The Character Builder FAQ makes no mention of the Character Visualizer. So I went searching under "D&DI News" link, and found this forum.
I don't mean to sound like a lawyer, but I feel like I've been totally misled here ("bait and switch"). The advertisements in the core rulebooks clearly imply that the Character Visualizer and Game Table are accessible via the D&D Insider subscription. Is there talk of a class action lawsuit? I know it would probably hurt WotC, but what about all of the people like me who were tricked into subscribing in order to gain access to software that doesn't exist, based on false advertising?
Some might argue, "Well, you get a lot of other cool stuff for your subscription money, like the magazines and Bonus Tools." I have almost never bought one of those magazines, and I certainly would never pay for a subscription to them. As for the Bonus Tools, I haven't even looked at them, because they're not what I was expecting (Character Visualizer and Game Table), based on the advertisements in the core rulebooks. The Character Builder is nice, but there are lots of "homegrown" solutions on the Internet which can be downloaded for free. Or I can just fill out the character sheet manually. So no need to spend $60 just for the Character Builder. And the Compendium? Nice, but I don't really use it. I'm a "core rules" purist, and don't plan to use any of the extra feats/powers/classes/etc. found in magazines, Players Handbook XXIII, etc. I have no intention of buying any hardcover books above and beyond the 3 core rulebooks (PHB, MM, DMG).
So what exactly did I get for my $60 annual subscription to DDI which is of value to me? Basically just the Character Builder. Yuck. Class action lawsuit? Hope not, because I like WotC, and hope they succeed. On the other hand, if they don't deliver on the Character Visualizer and Game Table (and the Dungeon Builder, as well), I will definitely not renew my subscription, and will probably ask WotC to refund my money.
Thoughts?
V/R,
JP
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 7:49PM
#344
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2004
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Then you my friend just lost....
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 8:22PM
#345
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2005
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Hi all,
...
I don't mean to sound like a lawyer, but I feel like I've been totally misled here ("bait and switch"). The advertisements in the core rulebooks clearly imply that the Character Visualizer and Game Table are accessible via the D&D Insider subscription. Is there talk of a class action lawsuit? I know it would probably hurt WotC, but what about all of the people like me who were tricked into subscribing in order to gain access to software that doesn't exist, based on false advertising?
...
So what exactly did I get for my $60 annual subscription to DDI which is of value to me? Basically just the Character Builder. Yuck. Class action lawsuit? Hope not, because I like WotC, and hope they succeed. On the other hand, if they don't deliver on the Character Visualizer and Game Table (and the Dungeon Builder, as well), I will definitely not renew my subscription, and will probably ask WotC to refund my money.
Thoughts?
V/R,
JP
You may not have realized this, but you are getting everything at half-cost right now. WotC recognized that they weren't going to be able to deliver the full suite, so they cut the subscription cost in half, until they are able to give out a more complete selection. No guarantees about how long this reduced cost offering will last, mind you.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 8:30PM
#346
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So what exactly did I get for my $60 annual subscription to DDI which is of value to me? Basically just the Character Builder. Yuck. Class action lawsuit? Hope not, because I like WotC, and hope they succeed. On the other hand, if they don't deliver on the Character Visualizer and Game Table (and the Dungeon Builder, as well), I will definitely not renew my subscription, and will probably ask WotC to refund my money.
Thoughts?
V/R,
JP
No class action possible.
You got what you purchased, three books with ads last few pages (hardly the first time a book had ads in them).
You purchased a "web content" package at about 1/2 the cost of the advertised DDI offer was that included a full package.
You received exactly what you agreed to purchase.
You do receive the "web content" plus the Bonus Tools that were not advertised. Now yes the ad said you could purchase more, however as it was not available (and still is not) you did not purchase more.
Oh forgot you also get the one application now as well for the same price as "web content"
Plans are always subject to change.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 9:03PM
#347
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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You may not have realized this, but you are getting everything at half-cost right now. WotC recognized that they weren't going to be able to deliver the full suite, so they cut the subscription cost in half, until they are able to give out a more complete selection. No guarantees about how long this reduced cost offering will last, mind you.
I made the decision to spend $60 on the 1-year subscription based on the false advertisement implying that DDI included the Character Visualizer and Game Table. If the cost had been $120 for a 1-year subscription, I still might have gone ahead with the purchase, although I would have been more hesitant to spend that much. I assumed that the $60 for DDI is a little more than how much you would pay for a first-rate PC game. So buying the equivalent of one new PC game per year didn't sound too bad.
It's all about what the customer perceives as value. I value the Character Visualizer, Game Table, and Dungeon Builder because that's what was advertised as part of DDI. Not the magazines, which I could care less about.
So the "half-price" argument doesn't hold water with me. If/when WotC releases the Character Visualizer, Dungeon Builder, and Game Table, I'll re-assess whether I want to pay $100+ per year.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 9:15PM
#348
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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You purchased a "web content" package at about 1/2 the cost of the advertised DDI offer was that included a full package.
You received exactly what you agreed to purchase.
Now yes the ad said you could purchase more, however as it was not available (and still is not) you did not purchase more.
Not sure I understand you, but here goes:
- "the advertised DDI offer" that I'm talking about (the advertisements in the core rulebooks) mentions a "web content" package in terms of "quick access to exclusive material".
- However, the advertisement also mentions "digital tools." The advertisement then says "And with D&DI, you can take your game online, so you can play with friends anywhere--wherever they live, wherever you go." Combined with the visual images of the Character Visualizer and Game Table, these words clearly imply that DDI comes with Character Visualizer and Game Table.
- "1/2 the cost of the advertised DDI offer"... the advertisements make no mention of how much DDI subscriptions cost.
- "You received exactly what you agreed to purchase"... Completely disagree. I agreed to purchase what was shown/implied in the advertisement. WotC failed to deliver said product.
- "the ad said you could purchase more"... No, the advertisements in the core rulebooks do not mention anything like this.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 9:18PM
#349
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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I hate to be a wet blanket, but the subscription page, where you choose the subscription package, makes it pretty clear the tools that are out, and just what you are getting out of your subscription.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 26, 2009 - 9:43PM
#350
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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I hate to be a wet blanket, but the subscription page, where you choose the subscription package, makes it pretty clear the tools that are out, and just what you are getting out of your subscription.
Good point, it makes it "pretty clear" -- but not crystal clear. The reason? Because the advertisements in the core rulebooks do not give the name of the software displayed. I am only assuming the software shown in the advertisements is the Character Visualizer and the Game Table. I was only able to deduce this after researching in the forums. A customer shouldn't have to dig through forums. A customer should be able to get something that looks like what's pictured in the advertisement.
Here's the subscription page:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn … bscription
A reasonable person could assume that the "Character Builder" and "Bonus Tools" included the software pictured in the advertisements. Although the Character Builder page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn … terbuilder) does not show any screenshots like the one in the advertisement, that doesn't mean that the Character Builder software did NOT include this functionality. The Character Builder FAQ made no mention of the Character Visualizer, so it's easy to see how a reasonable person could be confused by the ad. Also, the demo version of Character Builder included a greyed-out "Character Visualizer" button; therefore, one could reasonably assume that the Character Visualizer software is only downloadable or "unlocked" once a subscription is in place.
Looking at the Bonus Tools page (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn … onustools), one could assume that the Encounter Builder includes the Game Table functionality displayed in the ads, although I must admit that I didn't assume this. Note that there is no way for a customer to verify this beforehand, since a current subscription is required to access the Encounter Builder tool (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn … untertool). I assumed that the desired functionality (Dungeon Builder and Game Table) would become "unlocked" as part of the Bonus Tools suite once I subscribed to DDI.
Bottom line: The customer should not have to do a bunch of research. What you see (in the ads) should be what you get.
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