Get over it; at the time the comments were made, they were "true" (in the sense that WotC *was* working on products that they *did* intend to release). Things change.
Are you going to start complaining about the "false advertising" from 3D Realms about Duke Nukem Forever? How about the Cavs *promising* that they were going to make it to the finals? Perhaps we should go after the estate of JFK for all of the campaign promises he didn't fulfill? (For that matter, I liked Robot Jox, but *didn't* "love Robot Wars").
I'm not saying that I love the fact that the original vision for the online tools hasn't come about; there are people that I would love to play 4e with who have moved out of state. I'm not even saying that if (as unlikely as it may seem to some other people) you *actually* bought the 4e books *solely because of* utilizing the online tools you shouldn't feel as though you didn't get what you were *hoping* to get. What I am saying, though, is that it's foolish (at best) to try to paint the change in plans as some sort of sinister plot on the part of Wizards to CHEAT people of their money.
When WotC advertised the "lock in your price now" bit and splashed COMING SOON all over the VTT, Dungeon Builder, and Character Visualizer, you can't tell me they didn't know that those products weren't going to be available "soon."
The argument that frustrates me from those defending WotC is "there are already other VTT programs out there so you should just use them and be happy."
Taken at face value, this argument makes sense. However, what is not taken into consideration is that the other VTTs that are available don't measure up to the one advertised by WotC. Some of those things that I was looking forward to:
1 - Ability to create and use your own 3D virtual mini on the table top.
2 - VTT fully integrated with D&D rules.
3 - Integrated voice chat system
There are other VTTs out there, but none that include the above. I am not a computer programmer and have no desire to learn to write code so I can enter the D&D rules into a VTT by hand. I was very excited about having all of the above available through DDI.
I will be completely honest. I like 3.5 edition of D&D but there are things about it that I am not fond of. I also enjoy 4th edition, but again, there are things in that system I am not fond of. I was completely content with 3.5 edition.
WotC led me to believe that 4th edition would be fulling integrated online and that I would be able to play with my friends "whenever I want, wherever I want."
If it wasn't for the promise of the VTT, I WOULD HAVE NEVER PURCHASED A FOURTH EDITION BOOK OR DDI SUBSCRIPTION.
I can actually do more online with 3.5 edition (thanks to all the 3rd party programmers) than I can do with 4th edition. The supposed online capabilities of 4th edition are what convinced my gaming group to give it a try. We were completely satisfied with 3.5 edition but were lured to 4th by the promise of being able to play on the web.
That's the bottom line. My gaming group lost all faith in WotC as company and will be taking our business elsewhere.
.....2 was never promised or stated and in fact the oppisite was stated. All of the tools that were initially promised as being 4th edition exclusive are out. The only ones that aren't out are the edition neutral ones. There was no need to switch to 4th edition if all you wanted was the visualizer and VTT.
Are you going to start complaining about the "false advertising" from 3D Realms about Duke Nukem Forever?
Sorry I must have missed the ad stating "Download the demo of Duke Nuken Forever now!" on the back page of my issue of EGM.
But yeah, 3D Realms has an equivalent amount of credibility with me when it comes to producing digital entertainment products. Let's hope that's where the equivalency ends. (Since they are effectively defunct as a developer and are being sued by their investors.)
E-Tools was canceled, pulled off market, and is no longer supported for those that stayed with 3.5 (or went to Pathfinder 3.75)
Dragon and Dungeon magizines was pulled from the market after some time after the license lapsed. (Wizards did give Paizo time to finish up the serries of articles that they had)
CMP can no longer sell any data packages for the remaining program (PC Gen) or has any support for their new program that was to replace E-Tools, RPG Forge. (as E-Tools database is limited by the inherent legacy build that Fluid had given it)
The programs that would become DDi was started (what was it, 6 months before the 4th edition release, 9?) in to short of time to complete with the release of this new edition.
It was programed on the ill advised NET structure using Direct X. The fact that at least one member in any given D&D group would have a Mac was ignored.
So now we have the mags that are ghost of what came before it. Advertisements for upcoming products with some content that is not preview material. It is, to me, not a part of the price of DDi, but instead more like the advertising banners on free web pages.
The CB is a client program that needs the DDi to have any kind of updates, and still has E-Tools like programing errors. (The word wrap flaw is a new one on me)
The "bonus tools" are the 3.5 tools updated for this new edition and pulled over to the pay site.
The Rules Compendium might be useful, if the search engine could be made useful. Can you print out rulings from it? I don't know.
Now a price increase becomes a reason for the PHB3 to be all but published in the DDi as a "Preview" most likely up to 6 months before the book comes to market. Oh, and there is this thing call Campaign Tools that will be coming soon.
No Thanks. I shall use a pencil and paper, thank you, and get RPG Forge and put in the 4th edition info there to use to make characters, NPC's and make up encounters with.
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Everyone has to decide for themselves, using their own personal opinions, biases and views whether or not it is worth it to subscribe to DDI. Obviously DDI does not provide you with what you need or want.
For many others, it will.
WotC is aware that the choices it has made will not please everybody and that for every decision that they make that is designed to bring people in, there will be people that will leave because of it. They have made what are, to them, the right decisions. Only time will tell if they are the right ones.
It was programed on the ill advised NET structure using Direct X. The fact that at least one member in any given D&D group would have a Mac was ignored.
Not only can you emulate Windows on a Mac to run the program in question, but it is not a fact that at least one member in any given D&D group would have a Mac.
So now we have the mags that are ghost of what came before it.
I, and pretty much every DDI subscriber DM I've spoken with, get about 10 times the use out of 4th Edition Dragon and Dungeon magazines than I did in any previous editions.
If anything, the print magazines were little more than a shadow of the resource that the magazines would become in 4th Edition.
Advertisements for upcoming products with some content that is not preview material. It is, to me, not a part of the price of DDi, but instead more like the advertising banners on free web pages.
This is insane. The vast majority of the magazine content doesn't require you to own anything beyond the core books to use. Yes, they have plenty of previews, but those previews are usable in themselves, and the majority of the magazines are not preview material.
The CB is a client program that needs the DDi to have any kind of updates,
What do you suggest, that they design it entirely client-side? How would you get new material added? Really, I want to hear how you would have done it better? Would you require everyone who owns the CB to manually plug in all new material themselves? Would you store it completely server-side, which appears to contradict the criticism of DDI you have in that sig of yours?
The Rules Compendium might be useful, if the search engine could be made useful. Can you print out rulings from it? I don't know.
The Compendium is useful as it stands, even with the search bugs. It is not difficult to find what you're looking for.
Your language is radicalized ("ransomed", really?), your arguments are flimsy, and many of your criticisms fall apart upon inspection. If I didn't know any better (and I don't), I might imagine that you were simply looking for new and exciting ways to complain about a product you have no interest in, rather than explaining why you actually will not purchase it. Either that, or you have not spent adequate time considering the decision to subscribe.
Tales from the Rusty Dragon (http://rustydragon.blogspot.com) - A 4th Edition Conversion Project Covering Paizo's Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path
Direct X, though, is needed to run the some of the "Upcoming" apps. Not sure about the CB.
I think the CB would be better as a stand alone product, with updates not unlike the Virus/spyware model, yearly sub if it is wanted, perhaps of 5 bucks or so, patches for the main program would be free. The database would be more user friendly. Custom material would be able to be inputted in a separate base that a user would be able to choose to switch back and forth to without the annoying "Houserule" checkbox. Wizards would also have a better up front cash flow with the program being sold at something like 25 to 30 bucks a pop. (Or 50 if they are greedy... )
Of course, they want to put it up for a monthly ransom instead on the DDi, along with the Mags. Instead of patching the program when errors are discovered and can be dealt with, they wait for the "Monthly Update" to include them in with. (Which was skipped one month recently to move the date from the end of the month to the beginning)
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
I remember hearing/seeing the analogy to a DVD with Bonus Features being touted a few times.
The game (4E) is the DVD with the movie on it. It's what you're REALLY buying - it's the meat and potatoes.
The DDI features are what you would get on a bonus disc - extras that are nice to have, but without 4E they're of relatively little use.
It seems to me that many people have the analogy backward - that somehow 4E is useless without the "bonus features" of DDI.
For some of us the backward analogy is the correct one. We cannot play locally which is why we bought the books in the first place (on pre-order I might add), because we were told we could play online.
Just so there is no confusion I cannot play with anyone in my area because no one wants to play within 30+ miles of me. This is the only reason I wanted the VTT, so that I could play easily with other people online with pick-up games.
Dane_McArdy wrote:
I see the kids/work reason posted lots of time.
Outside of having to travel to a friends house, how is the VTT going to make more time that you already don't have? How is the VTT going deal with your work or kids?
It's not.
Having, like many people here, played MMO's it's pretty common on what it's like playing with someone that has kids. It's they are AFK to much, dealing with their kids.
I can only imagine that will get worse with the VTT, because it's not like a computer run monster which is going to attack whether you are at the keyboard or not.
And as for the VTT being your best chance to play 4E without finding another group. Bull, because there are plenty of options for online game tables and such. You aren't without options to play 4E online without having to find a group.
What I will accept is that the VTT looked really cool and seemed like it would be the best one out there! I'm disappointed, because it looked like having the ability to really make the game come alive visually.
If you read back through you'll find that using those other VTT's requires a whole lot of prep time because of the GSL and the fact of WotC IP. This requires the players and DM to type in everything they are going to use. This would not be the case with the WotC VTT. It would import anything that was needed from the CB and other tools. I don't have several hours to type in every feat, power, class ability, race ability, monster, skill challenge, and trap that I am going to use. I also don't have time to post on message boards and try to schedule a game to play in. One of the big selling points is the pick-up games. You go into a lobby, say I am warlock level 7. Someone else says we got a game going wanna join? That's it I'm in a game. On the other ones you gotta post a long message on a message board and come back to it to check it, and hope you get some reliable players.
If you read back through you'll find that using those other VTT's requires a whole lot of prep time because of the GSL and the fact of WotC IP. This requires the players and DM to type in everything they are going to use. This would not be the case with the WotC VTT. It would import anything that was needed from the CB and other tools. I don't have several hours to type in every feat, power, class ability, race ability, monster, skill challenge, and trap that I am going to use. I also don't have time to post on message boards and try to schedule a game to play in. One of the big selling points is the pick-up games. You go into a lobby, say I am warlock level 7. Someone else says we got a game going wanna join? That's it I'm in a game. On the other ones you gotta post a long message on a message board and come back to it to check it, and hope you get some reliable players.
You can do pick up games with Open-RPG(I don't know about the other ones). If making the character sheet is part of why you converted to 4th, then you can use the CB to make your sheet for the pick up games. Is it an ideal situation? No, but you can get most of the benefits by doing this. The only things that you'll be losing are VOIP are 3D minis.
You can do pick up games with Open-RPG(I don't know about the other ones). If making the character sheet is part of why you converted to 4th, then you can use the CB to make your sheet for the pick up games. Is it an ideal situation? No, but you can get most of the benefits by doing this. The only things that you'll be losing are VOIP are 3D minis.
Doing without the 3D minis is a loss, but I could do that. The VoIP is a deal breaker. I'd have to use a 3rd party program. I'll look into Open-RPG, but I think that there is no lobby feature that lets you just join a game. I believe it is similar to the others where you just have to schedule everything ahead of time and meet up.
