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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 5:16PM #31
Loki5654
Date Joined: Aug 8, 2004
Posts: 1,757

KM wrote:

Well I rememeber coming to the DnD site and the fourms on a pretty regular basis, almost daily, leading up to the relase of 4th ed and I don't remember seeing anything about the delay. But I have been sent links proving that the info was there, just hard to find. My point is WOTC could have done a much better job letting the public know about it.


I agree that they didn't do as good a job as they should have, but how does that imply sinister intent?

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Fairbanks, level 5
Human, Slayer (Multiclass: Cavalier)
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Background: Blademaster (Acrobatics class skill)
Theme: Neverwinter Noble

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 10, DEX 17, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 13

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 16, CON 10, DEX 16, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 12

AC: 20 Fort: 19 Ref: 16 Will: 14
HP: 49/49
Surges: 6/9
Surge Value: 10

[X] Action Point
[] Second Wind

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +11, Diplomacy +8, Endurance +7, Intimidate +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Bluff +3, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +2, Stealth +5, Streetwise +3, Thievery +5

POWERS

Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack Card Link

Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack Card Link

[] Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort Card Link

[X] [X] Multiple Class Attack: Power Strike Card Link

[X] Fighter Utility: Duelist's Assault Card Link

[] Fighter Utility: Mobile Blade Card Link

[] Level 2 Utility: Honorable Challenge Card Link

[] Neverwinter Noble Utility: Take Heart, Friend! Card Link

Multiple Class Utility: Defender Aura Card Link

[] Paladin Attack: Righteous Radiance Card Link

FEATS
Level 1: Heavy Blade Expertise
Level 1: Armor Finesse
Level 2:Heavy Armor Agility
Level 4: Squire of Righteousness

ITEMS
Dagger x3
Adventurer's Kit
Aecris
Black Iron Scale Mail +1
Horned Helm (Heroic Tier)
Holy Symbol of Bahamut
1 Opal
73g 145s 50c
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 5:21PM #32
KM.549
Date Joined: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 959

myt3m0w53 wrote:

What happened to KM's poll post... i tried to quote it and i couldn't...

I know... its like a petition... its against the CoC... but what WoTC did is against the Hasbro CoC... I did look that up...

now I guess parts of this post will be sensored because someone might not like what I said...


I just got a message that my post was removed because it goes against the CoC, they said it was a poll. But I said it was a survey. Last time I checked surveys are not against the CoC. But they must be now.

I do think WOTC will remove or sensor what they don't like. Sorry, not gonna drink the DDi kool aid anymore.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 5:23PM #33
Kobold_Avenger
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: May 14, 2006
Posts: 469
I can't believe how naive people still are when it comes to software releases. Software releases always take longer then projected, what is listed as Coming Soon is really means it is not cancelled. Perhaps alot of these complainers are new to computer software and are only used to book release dates which are rather reliable. Software release dates are not reliable at all and they never have been.
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 5:24PM #34
Kobold_Avenger
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: May 14, 2006
Posts: 469

KM wrote:

I just got a message that my post was removed because it goes against the CoC, they said it was a poll. But I said it was a survey. Last time I checked surveys are not against the CoC. But they must be now.

I do think WOTC will remove or sensor what they don't like. Sorry, not gonna drink the DDi kool aid anymore.


I would think that if polls are against the CoC that surveys would be as well.

I am Black/Green
I am Black/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.
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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 5:26PM #35
KM.549
Date Joined: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 959

Loki5654 wrote:

I agree that they didn't do as good a job as they should have, but how does that imply sinister intent?


WOTC knew if the public found out DDi would not be ready at launch lie WOTC promised it would, that would lead to people not buying the books. So WOTC let that little info out then let it get burried.

Please no one say "well you can play without DDi". Yes you can. But I have seen alot of posts here from people saying the only reason they bought the books was because they thought they could play online with old gaming buddies that are now all over the country.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 5:30PM #36
KM.549
Date Joined: Sep 24, 2002
Posts: 959

Kobold_Avenger wrote:

I can't believe how naive people still are when it comes to software releases. Software releases always take longer then projected


I'm not upset that the computer stuff got delayed. I know stuff like that does. I'm upset at how WOTC went about telling the public about it. Then after all that died down, they said they would come out with one tool at a time. The put out one tool, leave the other three, so they can work on yet another tool. They totally changed direction. They are not following through.

How do we know WOTC won't drop these campign tools and change direction without completing them? They have done this too many times with computer stuff.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 6:31PM #37
myt3m0w53
Date Joined: Feb 24, 2009
Posts: 880

KM wrote:

How do we know WOTC won't drop these campign tools and change direction without completing them? They have done this too many times with computer stuff.


Ohh... sounds like the new Magic Online... which we should have known!!! WoTC is gonna take its sweet *** time putting that stuff out... maybe they could put out discs of the whole suite so that we may buy them...

or my theory now is... they are tired of people stating the truth!! and are going to take their time and put them out with out any bugs

now that doesn't take into account the fact that there are how many new books coming out and magazines... they could never be finished with their tools Uh Oh I just got my hopes up and then dashed them again

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 7:23PM #38
Orcboss
Date Joined: Jul 15, 2002
Posts: 326

Kirayon wrote:

Of course I canceled my subscription a long time ago so I'm not getting anything at all.


I was going to post a whole bunch of stuff about value and expectations and such. But the more I think about this sentence in your first post, the less I understand how this thread got to two pages in the first place.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 7:59PM #39
brotherjgizmo
Date Joined: Nov 18, 2008
Posts: 1,061

Kirayon wrote:

Maybe I have just been spoiled by companies like VALVe and Paradox Productions where if I send an email I can expect a reply to be waiting for me in my inbox within a week.

I understand product releases and the troubles with software development, but I've never seen such advertising for a non-existent product. For anyone who follows VALVe at all they have their own release announcements which are held in their own time system known as VALVe time, where soon means a week or so and a week or so means a month, but they never fail to deliver on the scale that Wizards has. They also do a great job at pr and customer relations which is, as I see it, not something that interests Wizards in the least bit.


Well i don't know about you, but every time I have contacted CustServ they have replied so what you claim is completely alien to me. But then again, that sort of hands-on approach is usually reserved for smaller (gourmet, to use a food term) companies of which WotC doesn't form a part of.

I liked the first Dungeon and Dragon magazines, but the amount and quality of content has been steadily slipping while the price is increasing. I also did not really find many situations in which I could use it.


Ok, I'm really amazed at how people believe this idiotic hearsay about a reduction in content, after the first four issues of Dungeon/Dragon the amount of content has remained constant (specifically so for Dragon which is the flagship magazine and the one I keep a better eye on). It is a myth that content has been reduced both page and feature-wise content has been constant.

How people believe the crap that the previews and playtest has replaced magazine content is beyond me, it requires a willingness to follow the loudest baying of the biggest ass to believe somethign without verification. So I will say this to those that are lost in the sea of ********: previews and non-class playtest never were, never have been part of the final pagecount of Dungeon or Dragon, they are essentially bonuses, something in addition to, not in place of magazine content.

Now if you can't find utility in the magazines then you're entitled and I encourage you not to spend money on it because you will not use it. I, and others, however do find good use in those magazines.

To whoever mentioned the OH NO CAN'T DISTRIBUTE THINGS ILLEGALLY, if I really had the mind to I could download all the 4e books, like I'm sure many others could. I'm disappointed because if I do wan't to get a copy of a pdf of a book I already purchased I have to get it in illegitimate ways instead of from Wizards. But I restrain myself because I still have hope in the company and don't want one of my favorite hobbies to die out. What I am complaining about is them not allowing the release of simple base information like they did with all previous versions so games could be run quickly but still impossible to run without the proper books. It's inconvenient to have to shuffle through books while hosting an online game because it creates very awkward periods of silence while you look up the weight of a greataxe or some other nearly insignificant piece of information.


Well I was referring to your complaint that: "so my group of players and I are forced to spend hours if not days going through and parcing our own books one by one since we can't share them online with each other even though we all have the books." If you want to share parts of your books online you can use IM's and not be breaking any laws or bruising sensitivities. Now, WotC has decided that selling PDF's was a net loss to them and that they couldn't trust people with digital versions of their books. You may not agree with that, I frankly didn't care much for the PDF's and their extinction is not of my concern. However, the compendium, if you were still paying for it, would have most of the information you are looking for. About your other concerns, they legitimate to you and there is nothing I can say about them as they aren't a matter of fact or myth (in the sense of the other stuff I have been replying to, such as the incorrect belief that no information was given about the non-existence of a complete VTT) as much as it is a matter of situation, one which I hope you can fix soon.

I think a more accurate food analogy would be ordering a cheeseburger, but being told that there's no cheese right now but they sent an employee to go get it for you while they make you a hamburger. Then telling you the employee got fired while on his way to the freezer and you can't have the cheeseburger you wanted but get the hamburger instead.

Yes I could have said no I will wait until he gets back to order and pay, and I could have asked the other employees what their thoughts were on the absent employee to find out that he was a slacker, but I was trusting enough to believe a company who I was a faithful customer of for almost 20 years that my cheese would be delivered.


Well, I simply don't see it like that, I as well bought into DnDi at soon as it went to a payment system, knowing what was available, what wasn't and what was being worked on. I knew those things not because of clairvoyance or a direct relationship with WotC, but because I did the sensible thing and informed myself and it is my belief that those who fail to inform themselves should suffer the inconveniences of ignorance so that we may learn to look before we jump.

To complain that WotC is evil because they stopped development on the VTT is to equate the bliss of ignorance (and I wish I had a better, less charged word) to victimhood.

PS:
In a somewhat unrelated issue, to ask the WotC rewind and begin development in the original VTT and Visualizer when they have explained why they have been placed on hold and after doing market research on what tool they should work on next is the epitome of entitlement.

Also logical thought will lead to the conclusion that a DM would benefit most from the current DnDi and that a DM is the main consumer of DnD products. Therefore to focus time and money on PC focused tools as opposed to DM tools is illogical, I for once I'm glad they dropped the ridiculous idea of the visualizer and have decided to focus on campaign tools because it is what most DM's (most consumers of DnDi) need at the moment.

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4 years ago  ::  Jun 02, 2009 - 8:01PM #40
lokiare
Date Joined: Nov 3, 2008
Posts: 14,629

Orcboss wrote:

I was going to post a whole bunch of stuff about value and expectations and such. But the more I think about this sentence in your first post, the less I understand how this thread got to two pages in the first place.


It got to two pages because WotC does not want to listen to what their audience is saying and we all know where that leads (TSR comes to mind).

Look here to Check out my adventures and ideas. I've started a blog, about video games, table top role playing games, programming, and many other things its called Kel and Lok Games. I'm looking for players for a 4E fantasy grounds game.Swallowed Lich's Implement, help please.
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