According to the Fear the Boot interview with Ryan Dancey, WotC originally went to TSR as they wanted to distribute TSR products. However, when they got there, TSR made the offer to sell the company to WotC.
According to the Fear the Boot interview with Ryan Dancey, WotC originally went to TSR as they wanted to distribute TSR products. However, when they got there, TSR made the offer to sell the company to WotC.
That is actually pretty cool. Might be the reason the original Open Gaming License came to be.
Buy the rights or simply buy the company, doesn't matter to me. Wizards got the rights to use that brand either way.
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Not sure if I can publically say the amount, but the 'purchase price' of all of WotC is currently making the rounds as Hasbro is shopping around for buyers. I'll just say that the "D&D" brand name is actually not all that valuable anymore, though some related brands are a little more prized.
It's more than the 'gaming community' is going to spend, to be sure, even if they all pitched in. Honestly, even at the price they're asking, I really don't think there are any buyers willing to put the money in... it's more cost effective to hit the internet with a new game, particularly an MMO or even a facebook app these days.
This an interesting sidebar.
Hasbro clearly can have a wish price on how much WotC should be sold for, a wish however is much like belief.
Oh I am indeed sure the gaming community could purchase WotC as an entire group. If they all could agree to work together, even if WotC did not make a profit last reporting period they had gaming sales that before precosts would likely be enough to purchase the Unit (Oh this does depend on percentage of gross sales is actually profit after taxes and of course expected rate of return on investment). Of course the gaming community would likely inclide MtCG, D&D, SAGA Star Wars, perhaps even some remaining Pokiman (Or whatever that was) fans. The group clearly can come up with the money, though at a few costs. Instead of buying cards, the PHB or whatever for a year or to, spending their money to get WotC to provide what they want first.
Hasbro of course could put WotC stock back on the market, just those conditions do not appear to be good for target price desired. One listen Hasbro needs to learn is if no one will not buy it now, it has no value short term. They can wait for market to get better, however to do so they will need to keep the Brand name alive, even if there is the need for a few cost leaders. A long term view clearly did not work well for TSR, or policy of giving the gamers what they want. The basic reason there "Was troubles with the printers" was TSR did not have the cash flow to pay them timely, if at all.
As to an ask price, I will add I just saw a brand name be offered for license for about 500,000.00 USD per year, setting the believed IP was worth about 12,500,000.00 (plus or minus depending on expected rate of return and costs of protecting the IP), however some are not buying it. The value has dropped greatly or the license fee will go up very high to maintain value.
OF COURSE they're going to say that in the marketing books. You honestly expect them to come out and say "We need more books to get a cash influx" as their chief reason? Here's a clue, cochise, both 3.5 and 4 came out because Hasbro threatened WotC with closure if they didn't make progress to profitably. Something which, by the way, they've failed to do, even with 4E.
The sales of the core rules of the game have flagged, meaning that the market is already hitting its saturation and well below the numbers for the 3.0 run during it's duration. This is from WotC's own posts in these forums on the subject. Yes, the statements aren't as blatant, but one that was was that they celebrated retaining 60 percent of their consumer base...
And, the top 100 books? They're not the top 100 of all books, just selected categories you'll notice. Watch that spin, there, bud, you're getting dizzy from it.
It's sure easy to hand-wave away comments that offer proof while offering none to back up your own statements.
My turn.
You can say whatever you want if you don't provide facts to back it all up. so OF COURSE you're going to claim that it's all going into the toilet.
See how much fun hyperbole and baseless claims are?
I'll be more than happy to discuss any claims you can actually back up - but unverifiable claims of insider information help nobody. If I claimed to have insider information that says you're wrong, but I can't prove it - are we on equal footing, or will that be summarily dismissed (and rightly so).
You say WotC has posted here in the forums that the market is saturated and sales are below expectations. I say prove it. I've been wrong before, I may well be wrong now - all I ask is that you show me I'm wrong.
I offer evidence of my claims - you can hand-wave it away if you like, but you're offering nothing substantial in return. Which makes me wonder which of us is spinning?
Note - the Monster Manual 2 debuted at #14 on the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. The "Selected Category" was nonfiction - if that's some micro-category that falls into a spin zone, then we'll never agree on anything. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art … QD98FD9400
I'll also submit that organized play numbers - both for unique members AND for overall play numbers are UP - not down. While that may not DIRECTLY correlate to book sales, I submit that it's shows circumstantially that people are playing a lot more 4E - and with that book sales are a natural follow-up.
WotC_Tulach wrote:
I am counting unique active players, not occurrences of play. We have more active players now than we have ever had in the RPGA's history.
Admittedly, this is not direct evidence of increased book sales, but I maintain it's a strong circumstantial link.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide
According to the Fear the Boot interview with Ryan Dancey, WotC originally went to TSR as they wanted to distribute TSR products. However, when they got there, TSR made the offer to sell the company to WotC.
It would have to be a vid, no sound here makes it a bit hard for me to listen to.
Loading Ryan's blog now, or not poker has only some things to do with gaming.
What I have read, some in Usenet, some in other places, TSR was insolvent, unable to pay bills. Oh indeed they had IP worth something, however a contract with Ed Greenwood does not pay the utility bill.
It's sure easy to hand-wave away comments that offer proof while offering none to back up your own statements.
My turn.
You can say whatever you want if you don't provide facts to back it all up. so OF COURSE you're going to claim that it's all going into the toilet.
See how much fun hyperbole and baseless claims are?
I'll be more than happy to discuss any claims you can actually back up - but unverifiable claims of insider information help nobody. If I claimed to have insider information that says you're wrong, but I can't prove it - are we on equal footing, or will that be summarily dismissed (and rightly so).
I offer evidence - you cna hand-wave it away if you like, but you're offering nothing substantial in return.
Hmm, Sean K. Reynolds (SKR) has spoken a little bit about Hasbro and their guidance of WotC. If you require it from me, I will search out links. I will note that his first forum is trashed, corrupted somehow and so far has not been repaired, he could have modified his website deleting older files and even his blog might not still retain post about forum crash (or comments about Hasbro) as he worked 3.0, was terminated before 3.5 was released (though he did indicate he provided some feed back concerning changes to Bard and likely other classes - I suspect it was friend to friend as opposed to outside consultant).
A few things he related or implied, with parody, was that WotC was ordered to reduce force even though the WotC made profit because Hasbro required all Units to share equally in loses and cost recovery, that Hasbro resisted the idea of selling Forgotten Realms books, because unit sales would not reach a certain number (despite the fact the the FR logo increased retail price by 1.00 at no further cost then a little ink that might have been used for something else as well).
I do not know how much Hasbro was involved in deciding when to release a new edition, I do not know that all SKR has posted is true and accurate, it however was an impression that he had about Hasbro interfering with WotC goal to success.
I like all the people on here who seem to think money is the only reason there will be a 5th edition. "When they stop selling enough books they'll just make another edition."
Has anyone ever thought there might be a natural progression to these things? Some guy playing around with something who says "This would be cool to implement." Then figuring out that there's just no way to make it work in the present version. So it gets shelved and talked about over lunch. Then another guy comes up with a different idea. Shelved for the same reason. Then, when there's enough of these guys, they start meeting after work, just a few at first. Then more. Eventually they present it to management and sometimes the managers say 'Yes' and sometimes they say 'No', or at least 'Not yet'. But it continues to get worked on and talked about until eventually there's enough reason to make the new version.
There's an Indian guy I work with who's totally convinced that 9/11 was set up by the US government. Won't see it any other way. He's seen how corrupt the politicians are back in his home province and believes all politicians are like that. My simple argument back is that, considering how incompetent the government is at so many of the things it does, is it really feasible that they managed to pull off something like that and keep it completely quiet? Hundreds of people would have had to have been involved. They all kept quiet, agreeing to kill 3000 civilians and no-one's had a change of heart? He's a cool guy otherwise, but I really feel like I'm banging my head against the wall with that.
Now given that, (I haven't changed the subject, I promise) do you really think Hasbro has this master plan where they're just waiting for the right time to spring 5th ed on people? So many people always see conspiracy theories and cold-hearted masterminds behind all these things, when those of us who've worked for large corporations for some time realize that a lot of this stuff happens just by either the corporation bumbling along or by a small group inside the corp that gets stuff done.
The amount of material being churned out is enough to keep the people at WotC busy, I imagine, especially after the December layoffs. Are the people who think 5.0 is right around the corner thinking that there's some secret Skunkworks that Hasbro/WotC has set up who are busy thinking up new rules for 5e? Because there'd have to be some new stuff for people to switch. Unless you think they think we're all idiots who buy new editions just because it has a higher number on it? And if you think that, why didn't they do that for 4e? Easier than coming up with a new system.
I believe they've got their hands busy with new stuff for 4e. When they start running out of new stuff to add, (sometime after PHB5, I'd think), then I guess they'll start working on the next great thing. I'm not looking for a new version before 2015 or so. Evolution takes time.
Hmm, Sean K. Reynolds (SKR) has spoken a little bit about Hasbro and their guidance of WotC. If you require it from me, I will search out links. I will note that his first forum is trashed, corrupted somehow and so far has not been repaired, he could have modified his website deleting older files and even his blog might not still retain post about forum crash (or comments about Hasbro) as he worked 3.0, was terminated before 3.5 was released (though he did indicate he provided some feed back concerning changes to Bard and likely other classes - I suspect it was friend to friend as opposed to outside consultant).
A few things he related or implied, with parody, was that WotC was ordered to reduce force even though the WotC made profit because Hasbro required all Units to share equally in loses and cost recovery, that Hasbro resisted the idea of selling Forgotten Realms books, because unit sales would not reach a certain number (despite the fact the the FR logo increased retail price by 1.00 at no further cost then a little ink that might have been used for something else as well).
I do not know how much Hasbro was involved in deciding when to release a new edition, I do not know that all SKR has posted is true and accurate, it however was an impression that he had about Hasbro interfering with WotC goal to success.
If you HAVE links - I actually wouldn't mind reading some of that, though it doesn't demonstrate the current claims of market saturation and poor sales that I'm particualarly calling shenanigans on.
I should also clarify that I'm not completely blind to the fact that there has to be SOME financial motivation when new versions come out. However, I think the motivation is a BLENDED motivation.
As almuric mentions - evolution takes time. There are still lots of good ideas being explored in 4E - and the system is still evolving as the MM2 demonstrates quite well.
There *will* come a time, I've little doubt, that the 4E idea well will start to run dry - that problems with the gameplay (be it from power creep, or simple "boy, if only we'd done it this way from the start" moments) will become as much a detriment to the game as anything else. There will also come a time when market saturation DOES happen - even if each Monster Manual, for example, is an improvement on the last - there comes a point where there are simply more monsters than you can ever even BEGIN to use.
When that happens - WotC/Hasbro will undoubtedly look to see if its economically viable to create a new edition. If sales between now and then have flagged to the (unlikely) point that "nobody" will buy 5E - it won't be worth the development costs to produce - no matter how many great ideas the R&D team have on sticky notes in assorted binders.
Likewise, however, if sales go completely stagnant, and there are NO new mechanics to be had, no new ideas on how to improve gameplay - no edition can be born there either.
There will, I'm sure, be a time for 5E, it's fairly short-sighted to think otherwise. But to claim that what are currently seen as very STRONG sales, STRONG play numbers, and other positive inticators (DDI subscriptions climbing steadily - including a doubling of the subscriber base from launch to February of this year) and saying that there will be a new edition "just because" is equally foolhardy.
One does not snap their fingers and produce a new version out of thin air. There are development costs that go hand in hand with a new version.
If I believed (and I don't) sales were flagging so poorly that Hasbro wanted to ditch 4E I'd be FAR more likely to accept that Hasbro is just going to shut down the entire D&D line for the time being at this point.
WolfStar76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide
If you HAVE links - I actually wouldn't mind reading some of that, though it doesn't demonstrate the current claims of market saturation and poor sales that I'm particualarly calling shenanigans on.
