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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:16PM
#531
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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Wrong on every single point. Again. Bond has acted as an assassin, or did you not see Casino Royale? There is absolutely no difference at all between your claims that other classes are "experts" and the validity of Assassins - just like any person can be a killer, any person can be a warrior. Assassins are just as much experts as you claim the other classes are. And a first level Assassin wouldn't be satisfied? Riiiiight. Because you're such an expert on them?
I'm through with this. Mudbunny's right, everyone can play the game they want to. But you have the audacity to want to limit the options for the rest of us, and there's no point in arguing with you further on how wrong you are.
Your not limited at all, unless you think you need a class to actually be an assassin.
He exacted revenge, the agency he worked for worked against him, tried to rein him in and it certainly wasn't the normal Bond film.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:17PM
#532
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You're doing it wrong.....
I say we wait to see the class before commenting, really. I didn't think I would ever think of using a monk until I saw the class in the Playtest. Now it is one of the classes on the "I want to play" list I have. :D
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:22PM
#533
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Could I point out that discussion of classes, proper or not, is far off topic of this thread?
Plans are always subject to change.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:23PM
#534
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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It is a class within the now more expensive DDi.
Thank god I don't have the means to see it.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:27PM
#535
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2003
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Really, my only point here is that an Assassin class is simply not needed.
Certainly, there is a clamoring of a call for such a class. I think a munchkin call is a part of this, a power game for a truly unbalanced class like the PrC in the previous edition. I don't think that is what they will get.
Thing is, it has been a class largely avoided since the 1st edition overpowered class that broke games, divided groups and shattered friendships. I was disappointed with the Shadow Assassin PP, but it is not the end of the world, and seems to work with the Rogue set.
The class is one of an unheroic nature, going against the nature of the game and is alienated to most of the other classes. They tend to be loners, work exclusively in an urban environment, and don't have much to do with normal society.
Really, my only point here is that more options in 4e is not needed, but appreciated and welcome.
Certainly, there is a call for this class. I think a munchkin call for anything in 4e is doomed to failure, since a power gamer will discover each class is designed to be balanced with every other class. I don't think they'll get anything overpowered, and I don't think anyone who understands 4e mechanics was asking for anything like what you're suggesting.
Thing is, the 1st edition overpowered class that broke games is impossible to replicate in 4e, and while I've seen it divide groups (and not any more or less than the hyper-moral Paladin) I've never even heard of it shattering friendships. I liked the Shadow Assassin PP, but it was not the end of my desire for options, so I'm glad for this class.
The class is not of an unheroic nature, and is certainly more morally in line with D&D than a Lawful Good or Good PC that is actually roleplayed as Good. The nature of the game is to have fun, and to play roles (thus "roleplaying game") and alienating other characters is something any character of any alignment can do, and which the 1e to 3.5e Paladins did better than most assassins. A tendancy for Clerics to officiate churches doesn't mean Cleric adventurers have to, so why do assassins have to be loners, work exclusively in an urban environment, and have little to do with normal society? They don't. They can. But I've never seen anyone play an assassin like you describe, and I've seen more Neutral aligned assassins than Evil, more team-oriented assassins than lones, more assassins that are adaptable in non-urban environments than ones who restrict themselves, and more DRUIDS who have little to do with normal D&D society than assassins.
Yours,
Dave the Brave
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 8:29PM
#536
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2008
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Apparently thaX doesn't understand how 4e classes work if he's worried about 'overpowered classes' nor does he knwo how the editorial process works. And fails to see that Assassins won't be the morally grey class (Warlock, Rogue, Barbarians, Avengers...) or races (Tieflings, Drow and Minotaurs) or concepts (Damphyr, the gladiator article and the assassin article). He want's to play a Black/White game with no shades of gray, he can do so; most, however, won't.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 10:39PM
#537
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Date Joined:
Feb 25, 2008
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If they do the Assassin right it won't be restricted to killer-for-hire or urban environments.
An assassin could work for a church/temple or other group going out to kill singular enemies of that faction. They could be a 'big game hunter' that focuses on powerful (elite and solo) threats rather than caring about the rank and file. They could even work with Thax' king by being the one to focus on the orc chieftan while the rest of the party keeps the army occupied.
They don't have to do it for money, nor do they have to be evil. Yes Bond is an assassin, for the Queen of England. It doesn't mean he's always got a specific target but most movies he does. He's also a spy as well as a killer. He took training in killing to get where he is and honestly in the movies he'd be high paragon if not epic level.
A first level assassin isn't likely taking on contracts (assuming that's the characters concept) but still nearing the end of their training. Just as a level 1 paladin of Bahamut isn't expected to fight Tiamat or an ancient Red Dragon, a level 1 assassin isn't expected to kill a power target (or well guarded one like a king).
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4 years ago ::
Jun 02, 2009 - 1:05AM
#538
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Date Joined:
Jul 25, 2007
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Could I point out that discussion of classes, proper or not, is far off topic of this thread?
Technically, since the class in question is part of what we're getting in return for the higher pricing, it is on topic.
They don't have to do it for money, nor do they have to be evil. Yes Bond is an assassin, for the Queen of England. It doesn't mean he's always got a specific target but most movies he does. He's also a spy as well as a killer. He took training in killing to get where he is and honestly in the movies he'd be high paragon if not epic level.
In fact, while not all assassins are spies, I'd guess that most if not all assassins have had at least some training as spies, and vice versa. It's almost a necessity, in order to know where, when, and how to take out the target the best way. And as a bonus they can put that spy training to good use when not after a target, which is exactly what Bond does.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 02, 2009 - 1:23AM
#539
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2007
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I think a even better example of an assassin using spying, and all sorts of stuff really is Jason Bourne. He isn't even considered a spy either, he was trained and conditioned to be first and foremost to be a assassin.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 02, 2009 - 10:09AM
#540
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2007
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Hey guys. This is a thread focused on the PH3 content and the end to Introductory pricing. While I appreciate the points of debate you guys have, it doesn't belong in this thread. I'd rather not forcefully move it however, so if you could please rerail yourselves to get back on topic or take the conversation someplace else, that would be great. Thanks!
Trevor Kidd
Community Manager
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