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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 6:50PM
#521
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Date Joined:
Jul 25, 2007
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My imagination is fine, thank you. I don't need a class to have Assassin's in my game.
It isn't based on their race. It is the fact that the monsters/nemesis/bad guys/insert description here/ is raiding the town/terrorizing the locals/ attacking the caravans/being a nuisance/insert plot device here.
Have you ever played this game before?
The better question is, have you? I mean with a good DM, not with someone who shares your absolutist black and white views.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 6:55PM
#522
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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 Do I really need to say anything here? Everyone plays D&D differently, and everyone has different conceits as to what should and shouldn't be in their game. The great thing about D&D is that no-one is wrong!! For some people, the idea of assassins is one that is evil, feeling no remorse or regret as they kill for money. For others, the assassin can work as an agent of good, righting wrongs and removing evildoers with a slim blade when an iropn fist wouldn't work. Accusations of "you don't play it right" and "your imagination is broken" go solidly against everything that makes D&D such great game: The idea that everyone who plays can make the game their own. that we are free to take it, chop it up, blend it and mix it with what we want to make it a game that we like.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:00PM
#523
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2003
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Accusations of "you don't play it right" and "your imagination is broken" go solidly against everything that makes D&D such great game: The idea that everyone who plays can make the game their own. that we are free to take it, chop it up, blend it and mix it with what we want to make it a game that we like.
Ok, so maybe his imagination isn't broken. Poor choice of words.
He doesn't like imagining assassins outside of a particular confine. It still doesn't make the class limited, which was his claim. It just makes his view of them limited. The class has a lot of possibility, which I am excited for as both a DM and a player.
Yours,
Dave the Brave
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:00PM
#524
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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Seriously, do you know anything about assassins? At all? Killers for hire aren't the only kind. There are assassins of vengeance, of justice, ones who kill out of patriotism or religious fervor, ones who kill to protect what they hold dear. Swat snipers are assassins. James Bond is an assassin. Governmental assassins fight to ensure the safety of their homelands.
Anyone can kill for money? Ok, anyone can fight. Oops, looks like we don't need the Fighter. Anyone can use a bow. There goes the Ranger. There's no need for 4+ different divine casters, or 6+ arcanists, right? Hell, let's get rid of classes all together. 
And quite frankly, you clearly don't understand the encounter process, or how contract killings can be done. There is absolutely no logical reason what so ever that a first level Assassin can't carry out hits.
We have Paragon Paths for such things, two that I have seen thus far.
James Bond is not an Assassin. He is an international spy, gathering information and ends up killing to avoid detection or escape. The best Bond films are the ones where he simply walks away from a situation while chaos goes on behind him. Though he has a license to kill, a target is never specified.
The other classes are different in that they are experts in their field, and have unique techniques that a layman wouldn't be able to pull off. The Assassin, on the other hand, can make do with any skills he may know to do the job. Any class can be an Assassin.
A first level assassin would not be satisfied with a low paying job, no matter how unskilled he is. Life is not cheap. We spend to prolong it, and try to cheat it. To pay to have another life snuffed, it is more than a simple encounter in a role playing game. It certainly makes for a short career for a low level assassin.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:06PM
#525
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- Want Cheese With That Whine?
Date Joined:
Apr 27, 2005
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D&D Druids aren't all Celtic, either.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:08PM
#526
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Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You can find the complete Code of Conduct at this link.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:12PM
#527
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Date Joined:
Jul 25, 2007
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We have Paragon Paths for such things, two that I have seen thus far.
James Bond is not an Assassin. He is an international spy, gathering information and ends up killing to avoid detection or escape. The best Bond films are the ones where he simply walks away from a situation while chaos goes on behind him. Though he has a license to kill, a target is never specified.
The other classes are different in that they are experts in their field, and have unique techniques that a layman wouldn't be able to pull off. The Assassin, on the other hand, can make do with any skills he may know to do the job. Any class can be an Assassin.
A first level assassin would not be satisfied with a low paying job, no matter how unskilled he is. Life is not cheap. We spend to prolong it, and try to cheat it. To pay to have another life snuffed, it is more than a simple encounter in a role playing game. It certainly makes for a short career for a low level assassin.
Wrong on every single point. Again. Bond has acted as an assassin, or did you not see Casino Royale? There is absolutely no difference at all between your claims that other classes are "experts" and the validity of Assassins - just like any person can be a killer, any person can be a warrior. Assassins are just as much experts as you claim the other classes are. And a first level Assassin wouldn't be satisfied? Riiiiight. Because you're such an expert on them?
I'm through with this. Mudbunny's right, everyone can play the game they want to. But you have the audacity to want to limit the options for the rest of us, and there's no point in arguing with you further on how wrong you are.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:12PM
#528
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2003
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A first level assassin would not be satisfied with a low paying job, no matter how unskilled he is. Life is not cheap. We spend to prolong it, and try to cheat it. To pay to have another life snuffed, it is more than a simple encounter in a role playing game. It certainly makes for a short career for a low level assassin.
In your games, yes.
Yours,
Dave the Brave
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:13PM
#529
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Date Joined:
Mar 27, 2004
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Puts on VCL hat
Do I really need to say anything here?
Everyone plays D&D differently, and everyone has different conceits as to what should and shouldn't be in their game. The great thing about D&D is that no-one is wrong!! For some people, the idea of assassins is one that is evil, feeling no remorse or regret as they kill for money. For others, the assassin can work as an agent of good, righting wrongs and removing evildoers with a slim blade when an iropn fist wouldn't work.
Accusations of "you don't play it right" and "your imagination is broken" go solidly against everything that makes D&D such great game: The idea that everyone who plays can make the game their own. that we are free to take it, chop it up, blend it and mix it with what we want to make it a game that we like.
Takes off VCL hat.
Really, my only point here is that an Assassin class is simply not needed.
Certainly, there is a clamoring of a call for such a class. I think a munchkin call is a part of this, a power game for a truly unbalanced class like the PrC in the previous edition. I don't think that is what they will get.
Thing is, it has been a class largely avoided since the 1st edition overpowered class that broke games, divided groups and shattered friendships. I was disappointed with the Shadow Assassin PP, but it is not the end of the world, and seems to work with the Rogue set.
The class is one of an unheroic nature, going against the nature of the game and is alienated to most of the other classes. They tend to be loners, work exclusively in an urban environment, and don't have much to do with normal society.
Terms you should know... Spoiler:
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner)
Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level.
Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds.
Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
Show
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2.
The new sub-sub-classes will be:
* Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks.
* Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank.
* Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture.
* Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things.
* Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind.
Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2).
These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing.
(Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
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4 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2009 - 7:16PM
#530
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Date Joined:
Jul 16, 2002
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The great thing about D&D is that no-one is wrong!!
You're wrong. I'm always right. 
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
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