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Switch to Forum Live View Why DDI will not happen...
5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 9:35PM #1
doublereedkurt
Date Joined: Aug 23, 2005
Posts: 20
Hello, I am just going to vent/present some personal opinion here. Take it with a grain of salt; feel free to criticize or flame.

First, my credentials. I am a professional programmer with some experience in web development. I have worked with PHP, java server pages, Apache, MySQL, the usual suspects.

But you don't have to be a developer to see the writing on the wall. Has ANY software product from this company EVER been released on time or lived up to its marketing promises?

It is my opinion that DDI will never happen. If it were going to happen we would see something by now. Time is money, so at this point the project is taking too many resources. Features are probably being cut like mad as we speak in a desperate scramble to get something out the door.

The effective way to develop a new technology is iteratively. Especially with web technologies where you can count on frequently updating your customers code, "tape out" is not a big deal. So, there is no reason not to start getting things out there to get feedback.

Feedback is absolutely critical to focusing development effort. With a radical new application like this, nobody can predict what features are going to be useful. It would be very easy to miss the ball and spend a lot of development efforts working on things your customers don't want.

For example, how important/useful is multimedia integration? What level of support for house rules is worthwhile? What kind of interface is best to let people connect for games?

It is *very* hard to predict in advance what your customers will want from your code. The only way to really tell for sure is to just throw it out there and see what people want.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 9:38PM #2
Wraithbane
Date Joined: Oct 26, 2005
Posts: 232
Nah, it'll happen. These things can be delayed and still come out.

I mean.. look at Dai Katana!
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 9:40PM #3
Kyros_Tachyus
  • Fool of Win
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 778
I hope for Wizards sake you are wrong...

They're going to have to shell out quite a bit of cash to buy back the 4e books if they don't get it out soon.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 9:48PM #4
deathyepl
Date Joined: Jun 8, 2008
Posts: 8
Good luck with that. I just about returned the books to my local game shop, but I am quite positive that Wizards would not have then had to buy the books back from them.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 10:04PM #5
Kyros_Tachyus
  • Fool of Win
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2008
Posts: 778
Good point. Wiz won't buy them back. The FLGS' and Amazon get the shaft in that case.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 10:17PM #6
farewell2kings
Date Joined: Mar 13, 2007
Posts: 8
I'm just amazed how badly this was fumbled.
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 10:54PM #7
Mechascorpio
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2008
Posts: 161

doublereedkurt wrote:

It is my opinion that DDI will never happen. If it were going to happen we would see something by now. Time is money, so at this point the project is taking too many resources. Features are probably being cut like mad as we speak in a desperate scramble to get something out the door. ...

The effective way to develop a new technology is iteratively. ...


My own background is director of marketing for a software company, and I'm afraid that I think you've nailed it to some extent. To take what you've posted a little further...

I do think DDI will appear, but it will never be all that was promised, and it won't meet our expectations.

Part of this will be due to the pressure to rush something, unfinished, out the door, something they'll never get around to finishing. But you (doublereedkurt)also have to know from where you're coming from that they cannot possibly re-gear and decide to start throwing this out iteratively as some sort of public beta test, unless they'd always planned on doing so. To do so at this late stage can have no positive benefit. For example, do you get the impression that they even have a significant QA and support team in place to handle a beta test? I don't.

When I read Ken Troop's posts tonight, I get the distinct impression that this team is not, internally, on the same page with this project. He seems genuinely surprised that customers are so upset and surprised about the state of things. He seems to imply that customers would consider D&Di almost a bonus or an afterthought to 4e itself.

And yet, look at the past almost-year marketing for 4e. The emphasis was always placed on D&Di, even up to last week's Wired article. So WOTC Marketing is out of touch with the Executive Producer of the project, and apparently so are those responsible for the website (the only method of communication between WOTC and its customer-base), and the physical books themselves (if nothing is ready today, then there is no way they didn't know that when they let that last page plugging D&Di go to press).

So I have to wonder if the software engineers, product manager, QA, support and so on are any better connected to the project then everyone else? If not, then D&Di is in deep doo-doo. Even as a concept, D&Di is far too complex and ambitious to have been managed this way. And therefore, IMO, it will be ages (a year?) before it can possibly be stable and featured enough to meet the original PRD. Do you think budget internals at WOTC will support the project going on for another year? I don't.

Finally, I have to wonder how much market research was put into this. I personally have no problem with the pricing/features, but it's obvious from the response here that many do. Again, looking at the response from TPTB, they seem genuinely surprised about our reaction, and don't quite seem to have their messaging together on things like v-minis, add-ons, etc. I suspect there would have been much less objection to the pricing had D&Di been ready to go live this weekend with everything that was promised. Unfortunately, they're now stuck rolling out things one by one, and trying to figure out how and when they'll pull the trigger on pricing.

And yet they must have know at least 2 months ago that they were not going to hit the deadline, and they should have figured out how to adjust accordingly. Of the dozens of releases I've been involved with at my own company, I'd say only 1/3 met their original target date. But I certainly knew 45-60 days beforehand if they would or if they wouldn't. I also get the impression that they are, only now, looking to the forums as to how to prioritize the components of D&Di and in what order and in what state to roll them out. Admirable, but frankly, they should have already had a good idea of this before they even announced a single thing about 4e. This is not the time for market research anymore than it's time for unplanned beta testing. It indicates to me that the product may have been greatly designed in a vacuum, with little or no involvement of focus groups or any contact with the actual target customer base. If that's the case, do you think it will meet our expectations? I don't.

I'm not trying to be mean. I don't envy Ken or the staff here at all right now. I'm just being practical, and this is of course just my opinion. But it's an opinion based on my own experience, both directly in my field, and the history of WOTC in these kind of endeavors.

Perhaps, honestly, I'm just a little bitter, too. I'm a 42 year old who bought the 4e set on Friday. My first D&D purchase since the Mentzer boxes in the early 80s. I was so jazzed about 4e and D&Di that it pulled me back into a hobby I haven't touched in over 20 years! So, yeah, I'm disappointed. I feel like another company's deceptive marketing has let me down, and kicked me in the nostalgia part of my brain while they were at it. I know that wasn't the intention of anyone at WOTC. But "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

I wish them luck. I'm going to try to enjoy the books for what they are. Or maybe just pull out my old ones. If D&Di is, in fact, ever ready, I hope I'll still be interested.

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 11:08PM #8
DarqueKnight
Date Joined: Jun 1, 2008
Posts: 144

mechascorpio wrote:

Perhaps, honestly, I'm just a little bitter, too. I'm a 42 year old who bought the 4e set on Friday. My first D&D purchase since the Mentzer boxes in the early 80s. I was so jazzed about 4e and D&Di that it pulled me back into a hobby I haven't touched in over 20 years! So, yeah, I'm disappointed. I feel like another company's deceptive marketing has let me down, and kicked me in the nostalgia part of my brain while they were at it. I know that wasn't the intention of anyone at WOTC. But "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."


Meachscorpio's comments here are the crux of the issue for me. If, as Ken has said, the DDI epic fail was not a case of WotC deliberately misleading its customer base then it is definitely a case of WotC NOT CARING enough to make sure that the information got out there.

I am afraid that some of Ken's argument may have hoist WotC on its own petard so to speak. His own posts have proven that WotC was aware a month before launch that all of DDI would not be ready. This is a marked change from the way DDI was being marketed before and then at launch all of the promised features namely the Compendium, were functional.

Pretty epic fail all around guys.

and just in case you hadn't thought to already I am encouraging everyone on the forums who is always hoping that WotC will listen to us to start emailing Internet news oulets, podcasts, blogs, ect. and get the word out about the DDI fiasco. 4th edition got alot of good internet press. Maybe with some bad internet press we can actually affect the company in a positive way.

check out the "Get the Word out" thread for the email adress of the Wired author of the 4th edition article.

Cheers!

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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 11:11PM #9
Gwydeon
Date Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 107
WotC needs to contact an actual MMO developer/producer and bloody get their help with this. That's how they are trying to run this, as an MMO. Go to Blizzard or something (Yes I said Blizzard, their game is up, and running and catering to the amount people playing).
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5 years ago  ::  Jun 09, 2008 - 11:27PM #10
Morgrim66
Date Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 35
I am also a software developer (VB,C#,SQL, etc...) and I have to say that actually a major disconnect between sales/marketing and development is par for the course for failing companies. I worked for a company in 2000 that made a case management software for District Attorneys. I was the lead developer on an implementation project. I read a press release one day for our product that stated that it would be available via PDA. This was news to me. It certainly wasn't in any specification I wrote.

/sigh

/mourn the potential D&Di had.

It's too bad that WotC (apparently) didn't have the guts to sack up and pay for a real design analyst to generate real specs, define scope and build code on a real schedule.

They should have realized from past history that they suck at this and brought in some real talent.
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