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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 12:53PM
#111
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2006
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My theory on that is that WotC figured there'd be more than 5 (  ) people who would opt out of buying the books if they thought DDI would be late, so they just 'failed to make a big deal of it' until the pre-orders were locked in and books were shipping.
I suspect that's the theory a large proportion of the onlookers subscribe to. Which probably makes it harder to convince them to sign up for DDI now when there's already the appearance of bad faith dealings.
First thing for people working on providing new features should remember:
People hate change for the sake of change. They usually don't mind genuine improvements, but change just because it's change and therefore cool tends to get hackles raised.
Second thing for people working on providing new 'improved' features should remember:
It shouldn't be hard for users to figure out how to turn them off if they don't like them. Just because the programmer thinks he's had a great idea doesn't mean everyone else is going to agree with them.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:06PM
#112
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2007
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My apologies. It wasn't my intent to indicate that the 3 or 4 that have voiced a concern were the only ones to have that concern, but rather to illustrate that it *does* put those members in the minority.
Again, that does precious little to alleviate the dissapointment felt by that minority, but I feel it's worth mentioning because it I feel it illustrates the core market for D&DI.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on that. 
I didn't take offence at anything you said. I just wanted to point out that there are people approaching this from many different directions. I have no idea on what camps they belong to or how many of each are around.
I really just wanted to float the idea that there could be more than you expected. I'm mostly a forum lurker and who knows how many others are in that silent majority, minority, just me.
I feel some posters poster brush off the viewpoint that 4e has little value without DDI by remarking that the books are still usable. I don't think that is the case for everyone. I don’t assume 4e is useless to you just because it is to me.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:09PM
#113
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I'm sorry that you feel the need to bow out of the thread, but if you're upset (and can recognize that about yourself) then it's likely for the best.
I feel like you and I were making some headway to a middle ground, however, and if you'd like to continue the conversation at a later time (here, or via PM) I've been enjoying the discussion, and would welcome picking it back up.
Three final notes
1) Notice of delay - as mudbunny pointed out, they did make a notice. As you mention, however, this could use more prominence. I'm not sure what any of us can do to make that happen (aside from posting about it) but I wouldn't be surprised if mudbunny mentions it in someone's ear to see if we can't get the message to the people in charge to re-prioritize these notices.
2) Updates - you're far from the only person in the community to express a desire for being kept more "in the loop". Because of community feeback, we now get a weekly "Digital Insider" article direct from Randy Beuhler - VP of Digital Gaming for WotC. You can find those articles here.
3) Waiting for the Game Table - That's actually a reasonable option. If the Game Table is what you need to enjoy 4E, I actually agree you shouldn't spend any more money on 4E until the Game Table is ready for you. The only exception would be if you simply enjoy reading the rulebooks, this doesn't appear to be the case, however, so more power to you.
As I said above, if you want to continue this another time, we seem to be communicating well, and I'd be happy to resume the conversation at your leisure.
Please don't leave the forum. There are numerous other parts of DDi (Compendium, encounter builder, Dungeon/Dragon Magazines) that are being discussed and your input would be greatly appreciated.
I'm sorry, gang. Sometimes I just need a breather. I felt like a fight was about to break out, and I didn't want it to go there.
*takes a deep breath, in the nose... out the mouth... aaaahhhhh* 
Okay. So I feel that the biggest place where the ball was dropped here was, and still IS, in EFFECTIVE communication. Bear with me here, we're taking an imaginary journey.
Let's say I've been watching all the hype for 4E D&D and the DDi tools. I'm stoked because I'm a big D&D fan AND most of my old gaming buddies don't live near me anymore. So I get home with my shiny new box of books and see a link to the tools at www.dndinsider.com. I log on and punch in the URL and low and behold... the tools aren't there. In fact, at this point in the game there is NOTHING available. Okay, no big. Might take a couple days, technical difficulties and all.
A couple days go by. Still nothing. I casually search the site looking for answers. Can't find any. At some point I decide to check these forums to see what's going on. I find a number of posts from others just as perplexed as I, and some vague info on how stuff isn't ready yet.
Time passes. Periodically I punch in the URL to see what progress there is. No info on the individual product screens. Just "COMING SOON", with no clue as to when "SOON" is, or even where they are on these projects.
After a few months of this, I wonder if we're EVER gonna see these products. I want to go to WotC HQ and chuck my boxed set through their front glass. But I'll probably just hang my head in sadness and call it a loss.
I'm the "shame on me" guy. You know the phrase: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I'm always giving people second and third and fourth chances when they don't deserve it. Why am I always surprised when they inevitably betray my trust?
And the worst part isn't even that they failed to come through with the product. The worst part is they can't effectively a) communicate an apology for this failing, or b) make it easy to find out what's going on. They need to think from the perspective of an internet passerby. Information should be EASY to obtain. If I type in www.dndinsider.com (the web address in my books), it should take me to a page which either gives me the info I need, or gives me an OBVIOUS link to where that info is located.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:16PM
#114
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Dragon Slayer
- D&DI News Guide
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2005
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I'm sorry, gang. Sometimes I just need a breather. I felt like a fight was about to break out, and I didn't want it to go there.
*takes a deep breath, in the nose... out the mouth... aaaahhhhh*
Okay. So I feel that the biggest place where the ball was dropped here was, and still IS, in EFFECTIVE communication. Bear with me here, we're taking an imaginary journey.
Let's say I've been watching all the hype for 4E D&D and the DDi tools. I'm stoked because I'm a big D&D fan AND most of my old gaming buddies don't live near me anymore. So I get home with my shiny new box of books and see a link to the tools at www.dndinsider.com. I log on and punch in the URL and low and behold... the tools aren't there. In fact, at this point in the game there is NOTHING available. Okay, no big. Might take a couple days, technical difficulties and all.
A couple days go by. Still nothing. I casually search the site looking for answers. Can't find any. At some point I decide to check these forums to see what's going on. I find a number of posts from others just as perplexed as I, and some vague info on how stuff isn't ready yet.
Time passes. Periodically I punch in the URL to see what progress there is. No info on the individual product screens. Just "COMING SOON", with no clue as to when "SOON" is, or even where they are on these projects.
After a few months of this, I wonder if we're EVER gonna see these products. I want to to to WotC HQ and chuck my boxed set through their front glass. But I'll probably just hang my head in sadness and call it a loss.
I'm the "shame on me" guy. You know the phrase: "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." I'm always giving people second and third and fourth chances when they don't deserve it. Why am I always surprised when they inevitably betray my trust?
And the worst part isn't even that they failed to come through with the product. The worst part is they can't effectively a) communicate an apology for this failing, or b) make it easy to find out what's going on. They need to think from the perspective of an internet passerby. Information should be EASY to obtain. If I type in www.dndinsider.com (the web address in my books), it should take me to a page which either gives me the info I need, or gives me an OBVIOUS link to where that info is located.
So, to summarize, you'd have some faith restored if, in addition to Randy's weekly updates, they were linked from www.dndinsider.com as well?
I think that's certainly fair and reasonable.
[EDIT] In fairness, these article ARE available, under the "DND Insider" sidebar section as "DDI News" [RE-EDIT] And as a link under the introduction blurb before the "screenshots" of the tools[/RE-EDIT]. To clarify, however, it seems you feel they should be a "button" on the DDI toolbar just like the compendium and other tools, however, yes? Or at least as a "newsbox" or otherwise made more obvious and prominent?
Wolf Star76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide  Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:18PM
#115
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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That sounds like an incredibly good idea to me. :D
Resident Logic Cannon
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:28PM
#116
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So, to summarize, you'd have some faith restored if, in addition to Randy's weekly updates, they were linked from www.dndinsider.com as well?
I think that's certainly fair and reasonable.
[EDIT] In fairness, these article ARE available, under the "DND Insider" sidebar section as "DDI News". To clarify, however, it seems you feel they should be a "button" on the DDI toolbar just like the compendium and other tools, however, yes? Or at least as a "newsbox" or otherwise made more obvious and prominent?
Yeah. It could be as simple as a clickable button under the big "COMING SOON", with text that says "For information on our current status, " However, I think the link should go to a page that lists ALL the updates, or lists links to all the updates, as opposed to just the most current.
Maybe throw in a little "We're apologize. We are working very hard on getting this product to you as soon as possible" preceding the "for info" text. A few nice words can make a big difference.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:30PM
#117
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
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I will point out the suggestions to Solice who will push them upstairs. I make no promises, but those are great ideas.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:31PM
#118
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There use to be a button for News, until they redesigned it and made the ones that are available red and the ones still in production the yellowish. I would love to see that brought back, as I do believe it is a little hidden being on the side bar like that.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:32PM
#119
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Will we still be a little disappointed? Probably. But at least we'll feel like WotC actually cares and is making an effort to keep us "in the know." If we have to root around and dig to find answers, it starts to feel more like they don't care and are trying to hide stuff.
I hope that was more constructive.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:43PM
#120
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2007
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What sort of effort would you have liked to see? They had no way of recalling the books at that point, or directly contacting everyone who bought one. I've been thinking about this too, and I can't come up with any better solution than what they did. They posted the news on their website, and have included as much information as they can in the weekly news letters.
Short of a post directly on the main page, I don't know what else they could have done.
Some of what I would have liked to seen.
Based on some other forum posts I've seen by the developers lately, there was no way the software would be done on time. It doesn't even sound like it was started in time to make the release. But I'll set that aside as my opinion for now.
WotC knew for sure that they wouldn't be ready a month before launch and dropped a note in an ampersand article. I consider that a start.
They had a month to reinforce the point that they weren't going to be ready. If possible I would have shifted all of my marketing efforts to taking up the print materials and downplaying the digital offerings.
I would have also liked to have seen something prominently displayed on the DnD entry pages as well.
WotC is solely responsible for setting expectation on what they will deliver. Keeping the delays quite until after the product launch was a horrible decision. Nobody like to admit they stumbled but acknowledging and dealing with it shows much more integrity than saying nothing and thinking maybe nobody will notice.
Maybe for 5e they can complete most of their work before advertising it for sale. That way they will be ready of their big launch.
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