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5 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2008 - 8:21PM
#251
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2008
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Well, looks like we've completely exhausted the topic of feedback for DDI. :rolleye2:
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 12:14AM
#252
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2006
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Well, looks like we've completely exhausted the topic of feedback for DDI. :rolleye2:
Apparently.
Marginally on topic though, the DDI will release the betas of many classes before they print them in books, so it potentially saves you money by showing you what is in a book and maybe completely replaces the book if the beta turns out to be the same as what's printed.
I would prefer people stop having the mindset of "It was in a previous edition's main books at one point in time, so now it must be forever more." Do you see how big the PHB is? Seriously it's a huge book. Even if they had all the other classes worked out mechanically nobody wants to by a dictionary-sized rulebooks.
Franky they did not have all the other classes worked out. Their years of playtesting handled only a small number of classes, and the huge numbers of powers each has. They tried to make those balanced. They said numerous times they hadn't even started on the Monk when the PHB came out. It's unreasonable to require them to include classes that haven't been designed fully I think.
Now that the base rules are down (mostly) they can put out new classes and races faster. Hence the next book.
It's a ludicrous claim that you can't play 4th edition without a Druid, a full Gnome writeup, or alchemy. I've just been doing it for months. I don't personally miss the Druid all that much. I don't personally miss the Barbarian all that much. Some people do, but that doesn't mean their beliefs are "real core" and mine aren't. Lots of people LOVE the Warlord and Warlock, why is their like for those classes "wrong" compared to your like for the legacy classes?
It's incredible I know, but all books past these first 3 are purely optional. Marketing may try to convince you otherwise, as does every single product in the world that tries to make money, but that depends on how easy to manipulate you personally are.
If you can survive without a druid (for instance) then you don't need the PHB 2. For people who would like to have a druid, then they can buy it after it comes out. Pity it couldn't fit in the first core book, but there's a limit to how much information you can squeeze into a single book and still have it be readable.
Honestly, even in the PHB2 you aren't going to get the same Druid class you loved from 3.5 -- they may as well call it something else. "Druid" itself is the brand name, the actual product is a 4th edition class with nature-themed flavor. If you believe the 4th edition class with a nature-themed flavor that just happens to be named a "druid" (like the 3rd edition, and before that were all actually different classes) is required before you can consider a game "finished" then I don't know what to say. They could have called a Warlord a Druid, would that have made you happy?
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 6:02AM
#253
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2005
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Man Hellmute... Sometimes I wish I could just give you a beer and say... relax. 
D&D is a game, something fun people buy to entertain themselves. And the 3 core books they just released work perfectly fine. I've used them several times already!
Compairing it to a half assembled monopoly is silly. Without the game pieces I can't play monopoly. Without the Artificer or the Barbarian I can still play the game of D&D I bought. The two are NOT the same.
WoTC isn't calling us stupid. They're selling us products we want. Just like when I was a kid, I had Optimus Prime... He worked just fine, but still I wanted Megatron and then when the time came I wanted Rodumus Prime.
You don't NEED anything WoTC sells in the future to play 4e despite whatever they decide to print on the front of the book. I'd say getting upset at a company for offering exansions is just greed man. You want the expansions and don't want to pay for it. Too bad. Make due with just optimus prime.
TSR comparisons are cliche'
And to be honest...it's going to work. On me anyway. I'm eager to see the PHBII to see if they've got animal companions and familiars. So, much as I agree it sucks in some ways, they've got to find ways to make the splat books appealing. Not everything can be as essential as Unearthed Arcana or the Manual of the Planes...
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 6:20AM
#254
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2005
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It's incredible I know, but all books past these first 3 are purely optional. Marketing may try to convince you otherwise, as does every single product in the world that tries to make money, but that depends on how easy to manipulate you personally are.
If you can survive without a druid (for instance) then you don't need the PHB 2. For people who would like to have a druid, then they can buy it after it comes out. Pity it couldn't fit in the first core book, but there's a limit to how much information you can squeeze into a single book and still have it be readable.
Actually, depending on how and what you play, further books are not optional. For instance, we Dark Sun folks have to wait for the Psionics Handbook to start serious work on 4e DS. And you know what? I don't mind a bit...I just hope they hurry! (And for the record, no, I'm not rich. I can't even afford the core books yet. But I will!)
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 7:25AM
#255
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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consumers are kinda odd in that they don't buy what they feel is not complete.
Then they're welcome not to buy it. WotC made it abundantly clear what would be and wouldn't be in the PHB and I'm personally thankful they're putting more time into the classes and races.
Why not make that material available int he core rules, and sell *gasp* new material that can stand on its own merit?
Because from what I hear 3e was massively unbalanced.
I also love how it not being "core" (however you define that :rolleyes actually makes a difference. If you want to play it, play it. If you're DM won't let you, then either discuss the issue with him (perhaps there's a good reason) or find a DM that will. For a DM to say "it's not core so it's not allowed" is simply ridiculous. Your DM is supposedly your friend, right?
Needing to replace a PHB each year
You might actually have valid arguments hellmute. But its hard to find them in the middle of these comments.
nothing is optional.
I'm glad to see that WotC's ninja strike force is able to come into your house and tell you that you're playing the game wrong if you don't have every single book.
But that term optional caused the negative connotation that making PHB II and DMG II and all other things as core will prevent in the future, and be strengthen by purposefully withholding parts of the game for later books to show that they are core, and not jsut optional.
A) I don't have to allow druids in my game. Therefore they're optional. B) I love how much you worry about perception rather then the product itself. Is the PHB2 actually any good? Or is it a terrible splat book? I doubt you'll ever find the answer because you're too busy trying to thwart WotC's dastardly plot of making money.
Thus making people have to wait for some marketing ploy to rip people off.
Funnily enough I don't feel ripped off by having to buy 2 books to get balanced classes and extra races. And if they're imbalanced, I'll either not get the product or if I find out too late, take a lot more of a hard look at WotC's future products. But I guess this is just a sign of how well WotC's secret mind control ray is working.
poor planning that costs WotC and D&D.
You seem to show quite a bit of concern for a company you clearly detest. I'm starting to think you simply like the sound of your own voice.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 8:02AM
#256
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I think mass-quoting Hellmute is becoming something of a sport here these days...
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 10:15AM
#257
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2008
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You seem to show quite a bit of concern for a company you clearly detest. I'm starting to think you simply like the sound of your own voice.
I couldn't give a damn less about WotC. I just hate worthless programs that a bunch of simps are compelled to buy due to hype that function poorly. What are those 3rd edition suite of tools called? Was there one that worked properly?
AD&D Core Rules had minor flaws, but worked spectacularly.
Any software I have gotten from WotC seems to be worse than what could be done on a trash-80.
I hate bad programs, and bad programmers.
Correction. The DDM Warband Generator was fully functioning after a few additions were made to it that includes limiting displayed minis to your own collection, or what have you.
E-Tools, Master Tools, Gleemax, DDI Bonus Tools, shall I name the list of other software failures for WotC?
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 12:13PM
#258
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2008
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I couldn't give a damn less about WotC. ...
E-Tools, Master Tools, Gleemax, DDI Bonus Tools, shall I name the list of other software failures for WotC?
As you have no vested interest in WotC, the current version of D&D, or DDI, perhaps you should turn your concern and anger towards other things in the world such as poverty, human rights and values, energy issues and so on. Then the rest of us could use this forum to discuss a hobby we enjoy, and use this thread to talk about DDI!
Just a thought. And really. Decaf. Check it out.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 12:32PM
#259
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2008
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As you have no vested interest in WotC, the current version of D&D, or DDI, perhaps you should turn your concern and anger towards other things in the world such as poverty, human rights and values, energy issues and so on. Then the rest of us could use this forum to discuss a hobby we enjoy, and use this thread to talk about DDI!
Just a thought. And really. Decaf. Check it out.
How about educational value of entertainment products? But you probably don't see how DDI could play any part of that either huh?
Look at the shotty work WotC did with their software and website. They make lots of money from MtG, so they must be making software correctly for any kind of use....WRONG!
There is SO much room for improvement and quality of the DDI, and I cannot sit by and let subpar software roll out when I could say something that could effect it to becoming a better product even for people who I would never game with as I have no "vested interest" in 4th edition.
I just hate bad software no matter who you are and don't care to see D&D Insider Vista presented by Microsoft of the Coast.
I bet DDI will be ready for use on the N-Gage prior to anything for a Mac.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 2:30PM
#260
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Date Joined:
Feb 15, 2003
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I bet DDI will be ready for use on the N-Gage prior to anything for a Mac.
You wanna do this through PayPal? How much you wanna bet? I'll put up 200 bucks that it'll be ready for use on Mac before N-Gage.
Yours,
Dave the Brave
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