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Calion wrote:

Have you actually played 4e? Don't knock it 'til you've played it. There are bunches of people (myself included) who didn't like the look of the rules until they actually used them in a game. Forget the online content if you don't like it or aren't willing to pay for it. Give the actual game a try.

I agree with Calion - I was not too keen on what i'd read and heard about 4e, but I played it for three days at the Strategicon Gamex 2008. I came away in love with the gameplay.

Try out the rules in a game, and see if you like them or not. Even if the online stuff isn't your bag (it isn't mine), you may find you like the ruleset.

davethebrave371 wrote:

These kind of comments hearten me quite a bit. I love it, and one of my players is 100% against it, so it'd be nice if he could play it and love it like the other six of my players did.

I know the feeling - in my (semi) regular gaming group, no one else has purchased the materials or expressed much interest in playing, and one of the players has even gone so far as to say he wasn't interested in playing 4E.

They haven't tried it, but I think they've just read/heard stuff that didn't sound like it would be fun. When I mention some of the stuff I find interesting and fun about 4E, they seem intrigued, though, so I take that as a good sign as far as getting people on board with the new rules.
I'm going to run a 4E game and give them a good taste of what the game system is like. I suspect once they give it a shot and see how fun it can be, they'll change their minds. It's still DnD, after all, it's just not the minutiae-oriented game like 3.x was. Once they get past the idea that they *need* all those prestige classes and feats to make their uber-characters with cool concepts, I suspect they'll have some fun using the new system to devise cool character concepts, rather than simply exercising their game-mechanic expertise.

mattdm wrote:

So future physical book products should be done for what, charity?

No but the whole idea of staggering and multiple version of the PHB as core, is just a ploy to make people think more highly of these splatbooks that just happen to carry the name of PHB on them.

Look at Hasbro. They own MANY board games. How many people do you see run out and buy a new copy of Monopoly each year?

I may be a bit old, but I think things should be built to last. Needing to replace a PHB each year to me sounds like you couldn't do it right the first time, so why should I trust you the second?

I don't expect to go buy a new 2009 car and have to get parts for it over the next few years until I have a complete car. 4th has no optional components as that negative connotation is removed because EVERYTHING is core, and nothing is optional. So in order to have a compelte 4th edition I must wait until ALL products have been released in order to play with a complete game.

I doubt I would ever buy the Monopoly board, then months later buy the money, then the thimble, then the car.

I buy complete products not kits. Even my models come as complete kits with extras rather than having to wait months to a year in order to be able to finish them due to lack of responsibility of the manufacturer and neglect to realize they didn't provide sufficient materials to complete the model.

They are changing the game concept not me.

Every other edition was complete with the core 1, 2, or 3 books; and all else was optional. But that term optional caused the negative connotation that making PHB II and DMG II and all other things as core will prevent in the future, and be strengthen by purposefully withholding parts of the game for later books to show that they are core, and not jsut optional. Thus making people have to wait for some marketing ploy to rip people off.

Wrong answer.

WotC seems to be the last company that thinks the consumer is stupid. Haven't we seen this from a gaming company in regards to RPGs and D&D specifically from the past where the head of the company thought that gamers were sub-human and stupid...Lorraine Williams?

That is all I can see in 4th edition and its entire design and marketing. Lorraine Williams all over the place.

I didn't like 3rd because I didn't, but 4th is a whole new animal whereas 3rd did not pull this kind of crap that 4th is doing to bring back the past.

All I can say is if WotC wants to act like LW, then I hope they all end up like her. Where is she now.......?

DDI also sounds like the Blumes get rich quick scheme of having all this stuff spread out to novelty items that would make a quick buck at the expense of the "brand" name with no regards for its future, but just to earn as much money as possible before letting it all fold under. But this is common Hasbro practice.

I can't see anything WotC does with these things in mind as being done truly by or for gamers, but rather by corporate shills. So make your fast buck quick, and maybe in the future when people are more interested in making a quality product with good communication with its customers, then maybe D&D will stand a chance again.

Other than that the whole PHBII, PHBIII, PHBIV....is only going to kill D&D.

Tell me why all of a sudden do we here about professionally printed power cards? Seems like something they didn't want to do, but low and behold here they come! Makes you wonder why WotC didn't think about that and just go ahead and make a firm decision on it rather than having to be told by the forums that people wanted them. Bow that they are coming it may be a bit too late since people offer them for free or can make them for free. Another poor decision made by WotC and poor planning that costs WotC and D&D.

THAT is where that money scheme should be. Those silly things dedicated to D&D that will generate future income for WotC rather than splatbooks in disguise as part 2 of the core books.

Its a damn wonder that dice aren't given freely with PHBs still at this day and age. Even a silly paper spinner with rings for each die type. The one part of D&D that WotC doesn't make....yet there are many of companies that could make dice so cheap that WotC could have them stamped D&D or 4th edition and sell them through their "Wizards of the Coast Premiere Stores".

Useful things rather than crap like a D&D Frisbee, that is where the continuing income is from.