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Switch to Forum Live View 08/12 - Digital Insider #2
5 years ago  ::  Aug 14, 2008 - 6:10PM #71
DocRyder
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2007
Posts: 27

Falleneden wrote:

Bonus Tools:

I just wanted to make a suggestion on one of the bonus tools. The encounter generator is a great concept. Is there any thought of taking it to the next level? Possibly making it so that when you are done and want to print it not only prints the names of the monsters but also their stats? It would be a great tool in helping make adventure encounters if it had all their stats and powers in a nice layout, almost like you have in your adventures. Then you could just add the story text and poof you have an adventure.


This would definitely make this tool worthwhile, as I already have an Excel tool I got for free somewhere out on the Net that does most of what this tool does. The only part it doesn't include is the listing of monsters of the appropriate levels. Therefore, I see no reason, currently, to subscribe to these tools. As I've said before, all I want is the e-zines for a reasonable price I can pay month-to-month.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 14, 2008 - 10:11PM #72
Mechascorpio
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2008
Posts: 161

mudbunny wrote:

MMOs offer *different* things than does DDi.


More important, it's a completely different experience. Do people who play fantasy MMOs play them for the same experience, to scratch the same itch, as they do when they play D&D itself? Do players using RPTools, FG or BG look for that "WoW experience" when they play using one of those VTTs? No? Then I fail to see how the features of DDI, in whole or in parts, would be expected to satisfy the MMO urge, or directly compete for the same dollars. If they did, then why are people always shouting "Go play OpenRPG! It's available now!" rather than "Go play Wow! It's the same thing as DDI!!!"?

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 14, 2008 - 11:29PM #73
nexusvalhees
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2007
Posts: 618

mechascorpio wrote:

More important, it's a completely different experience. Do people who play fantasy MMOs play them for the same experience, to scratch the same itch, as they do when they play D&D itself? Do players using RPTools, FG or BG look for that "WoW experience" when they play using one of those VTTs? No? Then I fail to see how the features of DDI, in whole or in parts, would be expected to satisfy the MMO urge, or directly compete for the same dollars. If they did, then why are people always shouting "Go play OpenRPG! It's available now!" rather than "Go play Wow! It's the same thing as DDI!!!"?


the fact is as a software subscription product it will have to compete several of my players are not willing to pay the same price for DDI that they pay for WOW. All it takes to lose 5-6 players is having one that won't pay I have 7 that won't pay an outrageously high monthly fee + v minis, and I'm sure I'm not alone. I might have been able to convince them at the release without the V mini charge but at this point theres no hype left. We are playing TT and my 2 friends in NM are just stuck out. Were the price to come down that could change Quite simply this whole suite just isn't worth the price they want.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2008 - 7:22AM #74
Ceeje
Date Joined: Jun 3, 2008
Posts: 26

nexusvalhees wrote:

the fact is as a software subscription product it will have to compete several of my players are not willing to pay the same price for DDI that they pay for WOW. All it takes to lose 5-6 players is having one that won't pay I have 7 that won't pay an outrageously high monthly fee + v minis, and I'm sure I'm not alone.


I think this is the crux of the concern. Most groups I imagine have those that are deep hobbyists (those that invest heavily in the content and supplements), those that just want to play with their friends, and probably a spectrum in between. I hope that the pricing will avoid introducing a schism into the average group with a tiered pricing structure. Otherwise, groups will be faced with two choices--don't game or stick to the tabletop and/or cobbling together other toolsets.

It's not reasonable to assume that the consumer markets are homogeneous within each gaming group--in fact it is exactly the opposite.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2008 - 7:34AM #75
starfleet
Date Joined: Sep 3, 2003
Posts: 22
Seems this waqs meant to be for WOTC to reply to us I want to ask WOTC some questions.

First off why is it that you have apparently done a complete BACK FLIP on your own Comments and Advertising?

What do I mean by this? lets see for a start you have stated in the past that the Character Generator would be useable even if you where not Subscribed, just you would not have Access to UPDATED material once your subscription ran out.

Now instead your saying it's basically going to be 'Half working' software (hey this sounding familar to any one? Remember that CD in the back of 3rd Edition?).

Along with this is the Game Table Map Maker, so far you have given zip information on it, yet you have stated in MANY posts and MANY interviews that this would be useable even IF you did NOT have a current Subscription, to make maps for use outside the Game table.

The character Visualiser: Honestly Couldn't give a damned about it.. don't plan on using it.

What I think is upsetting a lot of people including me is the way you Wizards of the Coast are saying one thing and then doing another and making out that is what you said all along. It's Bad Business practice and honestly your starting to come across as a bunch of:

A. Politicians.
B. Liers.
C. People who had no real plan to begin with.


Now I know some people will say that I am being harsh there, given you have had a guy recently suicide and the like, but that's honestly not our (your customers) issue. What we want is firm HONEST answers, that are not suddenly going to change next month. What we want is also some questions that should be easy for you to answer answered clearly.

1. Exactly What/How much function will the Programs retain after your subscription runs out.
2. Exactly what is being offered with EACH program (seems hey not even your own website agree's with itself anymore).
3. IS the Character Builder Aka Character Sheet Generator:
[INDENT]A web based application?[/INDENT]
[INDENT]A Stand alone program that connects to your database?[/INDENT]

If it's the first then what's the point of most people paying for it when you know you kinda don't have your laptop connected to the net at say... the Local Gaming Club?

4. Is the Map Builder/Dungeon designer/ What ever still going to have all the functionality you promised (The ability to make printable maps etc) WITH OUT having to subscribe?


5. Are you going to at least come clean and admit you have dropped the ball and messed up, appologise for it publically and try and rebuild the trust you have lost with if you read the forums here and else where a good size of your Customer base?

--------------------------

That being said I'd like to add the following.... I'm not bagging out 4th Edition, I honestly like a lot of it.. I don't think people are right in saying that D&D has to contend with a MMOG, honestly it does not.. D&D has it's OWN MMO for crying out loud if you want to play Dungeons and Dragons online in a MMO go and Play D&D Online.

What I do think Wizards has to compete with is the growing demand for game systems that are flexable, easy to learn, while still maintaining depth. 4th edition is close to this.. I won't say it's perfect because it's not, there are a large number of things I don't like about it.. HOWEVER Wizards did all this hype and advertising about their grand (and now 'infamous') Dungeons and Dragons Insider, they talked about how it would 'Revolutionize' the way you played your Table Top RPG's and allow you to connect with friends all over the world to enjoy that good old D&D experiance No matter WHERE you are.

Yet now a good few months after the release of Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition.. and what should have been the Release of Dungeons and Dragons Insider the Tools that Wizards themselves Promised for the new edition.. We have ZIP NADA in the way of Tools.. What is worse is that WOTC has STOPPED any one else from putting out their own Tools.. Do I have a nice Character Generator in .exe form programmed in vb.net 2.0 that is fully extendable, does everything that you need to make a Character Sheet? Yes actually I do.. I programmed the damned thing myself and me and a close group of friends use it.. Can I allow any one else to use it? NO because Wizards have happly changed there licenses to STOP us programmers from being able to do just that.

A lot of us where happy to hold off wait give D&D Insider a chance to get on it's feet but instead we have seen nothing of them.. and you know the sad part.. It took me less then a week in my free time to program that Character Generator, which like Etools exports to fully customisable sheets.. includes all your spells in nice card form on sheets after etc etc etc.. So if I can do it in that time with relatively few bugs and I've not had an inch of Teaching other then self taught programming.. Why is it taking Wizards so long when they supposably are PAYING people to produce these applications.. WORSE if it's a WEB application it should be Even easier because it'd be pulling all the data from their OWN SQL databases rather then say like mine XML files.

Rant over.. take it for what it is a Rant from some one who's getting a bit jacked at Wizards and their constant flipflopping.. which is worse then John Howard durring his Last term or from what I Saw of the last US Election (the one before the one coming up) your Presidental Candidate's.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2008 - 10:11AM #76
hellmute
Date Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Posts: 4,431
^ Yup WotC is now just a giant hanging chad in the software providing department.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2008 - 10:31AM #77
Mechascorpio
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2008
Posts: 161

starfleet wrote:

Yet now a good few months after the release of Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition.. and what should have been the Release of Dungeons and Dragons Insider the Tools that Wizards themselves Promised for the new edition.. We have ZIP NADA in the way of Tools.. What is worse is that WOTC has STOPPED any one else from putting out their own Tools.. Do I have a nice Character Generator in .exe form programmed in vb.net 2.0 that is fully extendable, does everything that you need to make a Character Sheet? Yes actually I do.. I programmed the damned thing myself and me and a close group of friends use it.. Can I allow any one else to use it? NO because Wizards have happly changed there licenses to STOP us programmers from being able to do just that.


So it sounds like your real beef is not that the all the tools are not yet available. Doesn't sound like you'd use them anyway, as you built what you wanted. And you say you dont' care about the Visualizer. It seems to me that your complaint is that you're not allowed to give away (or sell?) your tool as a freely licensed D&D4E Character Generator.

And again with the "You promised it would all be free, you liars!!". I have yet to have been shown an example where there has been a contradiction. You talk about the "Game Table Map Maker" and complain it's not free... I'm sorry, but where in Randy Buehler's letter did he talk about it at all?

BTW, very classy touches to reference the recent tragedy, and to ignore that fact that they have admitted they dropped the ball and are trying to make amends. This very thread is an example of that, not sure how you missed it. But by all means, stay classy!

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2008 - 10:40AM #78
hellmute
Date Joined: Mar 31, 2008
Posts: 4,431

mechascorpio wrote:

You talk about the "Game Table Map Maker" and complain it's not free... I'm sorry, but where in Randy Buehler's letter did he talk about it at all?


That is the problem. He hasn't. Several things are being overlooked.

The very first of his "letters" should have told about ALL the tools, not just left blank areas and things left out.

X, Y, Z are ready and this is out plans for them.

A, B, C, D are not yet ready, and here are the changes to previous plans we have had to make about them.....

You don't just give half-assed information when you start. You should give something.

By now they should not still be deciding on how to make these things work, or what they are going to charge.

I has been a YEAR since DDI was announced. If they don't have anything substantial to show tot he customers or information to give, then they need to go back to making gamers and leave software to the professionals rather than WotC's amateur attempt at making some.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2008 - 11:51AM #79
Pamela
Date Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 1,065
Hellmute, why do you care? You are able to make up programmes yourself and you have mentioned that there are many alternatives out there which you seem to be using yourself.

WotC has made it pretty clear from the beginning that they were never going to have one set price like a software programme. Why not then sit back and enjoy the programmes you have? Why are you so angry?

For myself, I'm happy to get the annual subscription that's been announced because my husband loves Dragon magasine. The bonus tools are merely an added perk to me. I'll check out the demos for the rest of the stuff when they come out, but it was never the reason I turned to 4e. I'm happy to RP by post online.

If the programme here falls through, it will not affect me, though I'll be sorry for all those who have been looking forward to playing with distant friends and relatives. For their sakes, I keep my fingers crossed.
The enemy wasn't men, or women, or the old, or even the dead. It was just bleedin' stupid people, who came in all varieties. And no one had the right to be stupid. - Terry Pratchett

Doraleous & Associates : I'll let it speak for itself

johnkretzer gave me a . It was chocolate chip and very sweet.

Silversword also gave me a . That one was peanut butter!
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 15, 2008 - 11:54AM #80
area153
Date Joined: Sep 9, 2007
Posts: 1
Thanx for the online tools.
It'd be great if the encounter builder included the stat chart of the creatures. What-ever happened to e-tools?
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