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nexusvalhees wrote:

Can you read? I mean can you? Do you just skim one line and then reply I never in any way said they were legally obliged in any way to refund your money. What I did say is that I and anyone else that wishes to has the right to Demand whatever we want comes along with the free speech thing, and they have every right to refuse such demands. I can badger the company all I like and theres nothing they can legally do against me. I can Spam them for Years Demanding a refund for the 4th edition books if I so wish and they have no legal recourse so yes I have the right to demand all I want. Just like they can outright lie to us all they want and theres nothing we can do. I didn't say it was productive just a right I have. If I want I can Email them till the end of time Demanding they print all books in pink fuzzy hardback covers.

If it makes you feel any better I read your original post and got it.

StealthMarmot wrote:

I'm sorry, I was wrong. Here I was thinking you were saying you had the right to a refund. Instead you are explaining that you have the right to be a nuisance and bark at people for no reason. And yes, you have every legal right to just be a ponce at Wizards without any expectation of them to respond.

And I will reserve my right to just shake my head and write you off as crazy and annoying like a dog that barks at a wall for no reason.

(Note: Not really responding to you stealth, just trying to show which convo this is directed towards.)

If you are not satisfied with a product, you have every right as a customer to A) complain and even B) ask for a refund.

This is true.

However, they are not required to either listen to you or provide you with any refund. Don't a jerk about it. Don't get in their face about it. Make it clear that you're not a satisfied customer, then don't shop with them again.

You have to understand that the more you become a problem customer, the less reason they have to hold onto you, and the less weight your threat of not shopping with them holds. If you are a true problem then they should "fire" you as a customer.

The customer is not always right. By all means, make yourself heard, but be respectful.

nexusvalhees wrote:

I don't give respect to people who have shown me none thats why were in this situation in the first place people who do. When a company uses dishonest strategies to sell their products everyone just shrugs their shoulders and says what can we do about it, and I'm really really done being one of those people. they can solve the problem very easily release something or refund those who wish it. As I've said I really don't need D&DI I just expected better honestly. I want the company to have some integrity and take responsibility for this.

Honestly how much does WOTC stand to lose here. How many people do you really believe will actually return the books. I wouldn't guess more than 1% around half of the people who want it won't actually send the books back check out the math on mail in rebates http://moneyandsuch.blogspot.com/2007/0 … med-in.htm
and many of the ones who actually wanted one got a refund at the local game store they bought it from.

What you are talking about is completely outside the realm of sane business practice. Money back guarantee works only if you are buying the product directly from the source. You are not in this case.

That means that In order to effectively get a refund they would have to take one of 2 measures:

1) Arrange ALL retailers to accept refunds. So that means they would have to get big shots like amazon.com and every little Mom and Pop gaming shop to agree to taking refunds. There is no way in hell that Wizards of the Coast has that kind of pull. In that case the retailer would be out his cut, and would be compensated only for the amount they bought the books from Wizards for, and they would also be out what it cost to mail or send them back.

2) Give the refund themselves, personally. So now WIZARDS has doubled their losses. They give back a full refund when in fact they only received a portion of the original product. They are for all intents and purposes, paying the difference in what they charged them without receiving anything in compensation. That is not good business.

So Wizards sells a book to the retailers for 2 bucks, and the retailers sell it to you for 3 bucks. The retailers make a 1 buck profit. Then you ask for a refund. Wizards thus gives you 3 bucks for something they can ATTEMPT to sell to a retailer again for 2 bucks (if that). The net: You are even, the retailer is up a buck, and wizards is down a buck.

That is not taking into account the fact that Wizards is down from losing you as a customer. Also remember, different retailers sell at a different rate, so Wizards would either be expected to compensate you for the full amount, so they would give different amounts to different people. So they would have no control over how much they would be paying every time someone wanted a refund.

And let us not forget the cost of shipping and repackaging, and refurbishing, assuming that the books were in workable condition which they might not be.

So lets say 1%. Well then they would have to refund what they received for the book, give away that much again in the free profit given to the retailer, and probably the cost again in refurbishing and shipping. So 3%. In the business world, that is a huge loss there, when the difference between profit and loss can be quite scant.

And that is before taking into account the people who would buy the books, play them for a while or PHOTOCOPY them, then send them back whenever they wanted to Wizards. That is shrinkage which would be horrifically inflated by this refund prospect.

Know what would happen if they made such irresponsible business practices? Hasbro would pull the plug. Plain and simple.

I realize that 4e without DDi is like Starcraft without Battle.net, but there is no way that Wizards would or COULD give a refund. It is not an option so don't dwell on it. Instead focus on the options you DO have.

Specifically, go with one of their competitors. Other software to run your online 4e games. And when the time comes you can deny them their 15 bucks a month.