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Illithich wrote:

Right now there's talk that you will need to register your books online for a small additional charge per book. "About the price of a cup of coffee." I wouldn't mind that charge being padded a bit to include V-Minis and the extra rules for the character generator and what not on a per book basis.

Actually, at DDXP this was announced as scrapped (they couldn't get it to work repliably).

Instead, subscribers to DDI will have access to the searchable Rules Database - and this will included content from all the books as they're released (and I believe from Dungon and Dragon magazines).

PDF copies of the books will (probably) be for sale if you'd prefer that over physical copies.

oldpep wrote:

Then I saw that paying for the books and the subscription is just the cover charge. In order to actually use the books, you have to pay for them again. (I don't want to hear about the cost of ebooks-the subscription should take care of that).

Not sure what you mean by this. There's nothing stopping you from having your books open on the desk next to you while you play, and anyone who subscribes to DDI will have access to the online Rules Database. Need to know how Grapple (Grab) works? Do a quick search, and get the text back.

There *was* a plan to allow people to unlock individual books for a nominal fee, using a system of codes in the physical books you purchase, but for assorted reasons (mostly technical, we're told) they've dropped that plan.

You *will* be able to order (presumably) PDF versions of the books, but that would be a separate purchase in no way related to the physical books.

In order to use the tiles, I have to purchase the creatures I'd already paid for when I bought the MM. Insisting that costumers pay for a virtual representation is sheer greed. It's mind-bogglingly greedy.

Again with the "insisting/making/forcing" comments. . . (not meaning you, just perception in general).

The Game Table Online will allow players/dms to utilize "tokens" that they can make themselves. The tokens are flat discs (not unlike Alea Tools discs) and you can import the image of your choice to be on top of that token. Wanna make yourself a monster? Import your webcam pic (Oooh. . . now I wanna dress up like a pirate. . . curse my ADHD!), stick it on a disc or a cluster of discs, and you have a band of monsters that look just like you.

You have the *option* of purchasing 3D minis and tiles if you feel that the 3D will enhance your game. If you don't want 3D, or don't want to pay the additional cost, no harm done.

In short, nobody will INSIST you pay for anything. There is room for debate about whether or not 3D graphics should be an option or not, however. (See the numerous discussions between myself and Malkav for evidence of this)

Which brings me to the folks justifying the subscription price by the inclusion of Dragon and Dungeon. I used to get a subscription to Dungeon from my mother-in-law for Christmas. They occasionally had stuff I could use and she was off the hook for finding me something I'd like. But several years ago I told her not to do it any more. The magazine is, in my opinion, lousy. It has absurd dungeons that require very specific settings or a great deal of time altering them. The story-lines were just plain dopey. I have never been tempted to by that magazine again.
As for Dragon, every time I glance through it, I'm amazed anyone would actually pay for it.

M'eh. To each their own. For me the mags are worth a read when I'm between books, but they're neither "awesome" or "trash" for me, they're just "there".

These two e-magazines add zero to the value of the subscription to me. I think they're included and cited as adding the cost of the magazine because nobody was buying them anymore.

There are a LOT of fairly rabid magazine fans would disagree with you. However, you had the foresight to point out they add nothing to the value for YOU, so at least you "get" the fact that everything isn't for everyone.

It may simply be that DDI as a whole won't be for you, but hopefully you've got a slightly better view of what's included.

I've already ordered the books, and will use them as soon as possible because 3rd edition, as big of an improvement as it was, has outlived its usefulness. But insider is looking more and more like a way to nickel and dime players and especially DMs (I've been DMing steadily since the late 70s.)

On the upside you will get a 10-day trial to test DDI out, and see if its for you or not.

I'd personally tell people "on the fence" to wait for the first month to pass before taking their trial (that gives them time to work out bugs, for critics trials to expire, fanboys to stop pounding the servers for all the trial is worth, and for traffic to "normalize"), but that's another discussion.

Balthanon wrote:

Hopefully these aren't going to be at full price-- one of the things that I liked the idea of initially was the option to purchase a book and then PDF (or PDFs, it wasn't clear initially) afterwards for a couple of dollars extra. I do think they would have made money on this for those groups where there are only one or two collectors in a group and the rest just use those books.

I'm not sure how much information the rules database will have in terms of the rules text, but I like PDFs for browsing through, though I still like having the hard cover. I may have to decide whether to go entirely electronic or not though.

I believe it was said at DDXP that PDFs would be less expensive (I'd guess $25 - $30, but that's just me pulling a number from thin air). There haven't been any hard numbers listed that I've seen.