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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 4:18AM
#51
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2004
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If it has stats... it can be killed. I don't remember how many times I've heard that, but I can hardly disagree with this statement.
Killing Bane would be an epic quest on a grand scale - the PCs would have to exploit all of his weaknesses, perhpas find a sword of baneslaying or whatever, as well as some special magic trinkets that would come in handy, and some allies, like an ancient golden dragon. Everything's possible.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 4:24AM
#52
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2004
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Side-stepping the whole usable / non-usable debate, I would simply like to have stats for Bane. Am I really the only one susceptible to stat-porn? I mean I don't know if I'll even get my party out of the Heroic tier, but I still enjoy looking at the stats on the Tarrasque and grinning like a maniac. :D
Anyway, people need to run some more interesting scenarios than meet monster, kill monster. How about stealing something from Bane? You just have to survive a few rounds with him? How about going out in a suicide run - hold him off just long enough for your patron deity to seal him in his plane and die at level 30 knowing you've saved the World? Things like that mean stats are useful even if he wont be beaten.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 6:52AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2008
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Anyone can generate a stat block. It's the lore that makes this article shine.
Very well said, though the stats are as an essential part of the article as the lore is.
I think if they don't errata something soon, I'm going to use the Monster Builder to MAKE a level 39 Bane and post it on this thread.
I for myself would be interested in seeing them.
Someone saved a thread with my old signature by accident? Please PM me!
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 9:04AM
#54
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I will put this in a ltlittle perspective for you
AC 58; Fortitude 52, Reflex 54, Will 52
so you need a +39 to hit that AC on anything but a 20...or penlties to match...
swordmage/kensi/demigod
+3 prof...+15 level...(start 20 Int +8 levels +2 demigod) +10 ablitiy score
+6 magic weapon (gith silver sword)...+2 opel ring (adventures vault) +1 Head band int... +1 kensi pp...= +38...still need 20's to hit
rouge/kensi/demigod
+3 prof +15 level +10 ability score +6 dagger +1 class +1 kensi +2 combat advantage... is +38...peirceing strike is vs ref...so hit on a 17+...
yea that seams doable...
those base line stat show it is almost impossble of a fight...and is well outside of 4e's window of math...why stat something just to say "You lose" when you save room by just saying "you lose"
So thats your base line for your melee basics, great. Its hard to hit him with a Melee basic, why does this have to be a "normal" fight in which you have a 50% chance of hitting on at-wills or basics.
Fighter can open with adamantine strike, its vs Ref so better shot to hit, thats -2 AC until end of next turn. Good time for your Rogue to nail him with Feinting Flurry to stack penalties, that is vs will so an even better shot. If you hit thats probably -5 to all defense that you can sustain until stunned or whatever.
So with just those two moves that makes his defenses 51 AC (until end of turn 53 ac afterwards) 47 Fort, 49 Ref, 47 Will. Thats a bit more manageable huh?
Yeah they require you to hit in the first place, but by epic Im sure there are plenty of things you can do to ensure that. With action points or rerolls and what have you.
Penalties are just as important as pluses. And theres no reason why you cant include circumstantial modifiers like Warlords Furious Smash for maybe +4 or 5.
I know my PCs would relish the opportunity to go against deities, even if they lost.
Just because a monster isnt easy, normal, hard or even extremely tough doesnt mean we cant use stats or whatever. I mean if Bane is too tough for stats, in the same vein why do we need stat blocks for minions? 1 HP with defenses for their level. Any DM can do that. Not every DM could make a properly balanced Bane.
Regardless, the bottom line is plenty of us could use the stats, for those of you that dont want them or are to worried about using them there is no obligation, but its not harming you in anyway.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 9:16AM
#55
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Date Joined:
Apr 10, 2006
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So thats your base line for your melee basics, great. Its hard to hit him with a Melee basic, why does this have to be a "normal" fight in which you have a 50% chance of hitting on at-wills or basics.
Vecna and Tiamat are not 50% chance of hitting..infact they are often TPK...higher level monsters are against the basic rules...becuse the math breaks down...
Fighter can open with adamantine strike, its vs Ref so better shot to hit, thats -2 AC until end of next turn. Good time for your Rogue to nail him with Feinting Flurry to stack penalties, that is vs will so an even better shot. If you hit thats probably -5 to all defense that you can sustain until stunned or whatever.
So with just those two moves that makes his defenses 51 AC (until end of turn 53 ac afterwards) 47 Fort, 49 Ref, 47 Will. Thats a bit more manageable huh?
that is awsome...and great Tactics...it means you have a chance...on the out most of maybe standing a chance...way to go...and I mean that...but that doesn't change the basic math that breaks down...
Yeah they require you to hit in the first place, but by epic Im sure there are plenty of things you can do to ensure that. With action points or rerolls and what have you.
Penalties are just as important as pluses. And theres no reason why you cant include circumstantial modifiers like Warlords Furious Smash for maybe +4 or 5.
you are making argument against nothing...there is no reason you are not 100% right...but that doesn't change the fact that they don't want to stat over 35 levels of monster...
I know my PCs would relish the opportunity to go against deities, even if they lost.
two words...vecna...tiamat
Just because a monster isnt easy, normal, hard or even extremely tough doesnt mean we cant use stats or whatever. I mean if Bane is too tough for stats, in the same vein why do we need stat blocks for minions?
yes we need stats for minnons, no we don't need every minnon possible stated...just like yes we need stats for gods, no we don't need every god stated...
Regardless, the bottom line is plenty of us could use the stats, for those of you that dont want them or are to worried about using them there is no obligation, but its not harming you in anyway.
I agree I would love to see level 40 pelor stated...but WotC made the discsion (for good or ill) to only publish what 80+% of players will use...
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 9:32AM
#56
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Of that 80% though, maybe 20% subscribe to DDI. I dont think paying 8 bucks for things out of the ordinary is asking to much. It really doesnt cost them anything to give us this medium, other than work invested of course.
It doesn't help that there is a huge non-vocal majority out there either. So they are making assumptions that has a good possibility of being accurate, but I dont think 80% of D&D players wouldnt want to see Banes stats.
Isnt the bottom line what we are willing to pay for? Its a business afterall.
I dont know how well Deities and demigods sold for 3.5 but it was one of my favorite supplements, I still use it for 4.0 trying to bring back in all the cool gods they got rid of, like Olidimarra and Obad-Hai, and trying to phase out useless gods like Avandra.
I dont think Im alone in the idea that "if you can interact with it, it deserves a stat block".
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 10:44AM
#57
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Date Joined:
Jul 23, 2004
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There're many ways that a fully-stated Bane can be used. Battle is one of them.
It's not very difficult to come up with ideas how to make the PCs capable of standing against a greater god. They can find specific magic items that the deity is vulnerable to, they can perform a ritual that gives them a considerable bonus to attacks etc., they can have a high-level ally, another demigod/deity can join them (like an exarch of Grummsh) etc.
So, noble folks at Wizards, listen to us and give us an official statblock. It would make you look like really caring for the customers.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 10:51AM
#58
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2004
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So, noble folks at Wizards, listen to us and give us an official statblock. It would make you look like really caring for the customers.
Starts chant: "Stat block! Stat block! Stat block! Stat block!" :D
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 10:55AM
#59
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2008
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I loved the article and completely agree with the exclusion of Bane's Stats in the article. Besides it allows them to actually stat him out in a hardcover book later on (and we all suspect that they will stat out most if not all gods in hardcovers).
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4 years ago ::
Feb 07, 2009 - 2:12PM
#60
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If you're not willing or able to put together your BBEG for a so-called "epic confrontation" then you don't have a lot of room to throw stones.
So if you're not willing or able to plan your own house then you don't have a lot of room to complain about the architect who planed your house? People who are not willing or able have any right to complain when they pay a professional company to deliver the product they're unwilling or unable to create themselves.
If it were a free web article then there would be no room to throw stones, but WotC charges people for it.
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