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Well another problems is the druid just doesn't seem to be properly thought out, it doesn't take into account the full scope of D&D or even the 4e material released so far.

For instance if some one were to make a Gnoll druid it doesn't make any sense why they can only use their beast form powers while in beast form, gnoll have teeth and claws enough just as they are. Shifters too can gain teeth and claws by other means then Wild Shape (and their shifting powers also come form the primal beast).

What if a druid were transformed into an animal by some other means? Polymorph or some such. Would they still be able to use their beast form powers?

I am still concentrating on the wild shape transformation side of things but that's because it's the part that really needs some improvements. I only have one complaint about the magic controller side, and that's the Flame Seed power. Not the power itself but it's name and flavor text. You throw a seed that bursts into a fiery explosion on impact? That's just silly.

No I'm disappointed because the new wild shape sucks. Especially since it's really the key feature of the class, if you want to stand around casting spells all day then go make a wizard. I want good shape shifting and I want it to matter.

[EDIT] As for druids in 3.5 I liked the class concept but not the actual gameplay. To me they seemed underpowered, though that's probably because I build my characters for roleplaying not for number crunching to achieve maximum power. In the end I didn't play druids all that much mainly because being neutral is really boring. I was really hopeful that 4E would bring about a druid that I would truly enjoy playing.

Aegeri wrote:

Because 3 levels is clearly a whole class

The point of the matter is that the Druid isn't supposed to be good at everything in a controller role. It functions in an up front sense, which is more than the wizard, but it does not outdo the wizard for sheer control. You have a partial melee and excellent ranged controller in the druid, with a wider selection of overall powers to make them flexible.



It does matter, it makes you an up front melee controller with better HP and defenses than a wizard. Alternatively, it allows you to have higher and better mobility to get out of a dangerous situation against melee monsters (plus have some degree of melee control as well). This is the druid controllers huge advantage over the wizard.

You're a controller. I've playtested the druid myself in some adventures. They work very well at exactly this role (the druid who thought he could play the groups defender however quickly learned his mistake was fatal). As it is, I would like to see where the powers go from here (why can't we have a proper playtest from levels 1-30), but this is a good start.

From what I have played, the druid excels at being a controller and having melee control is one of the most powerful things I've seen for PCs who use it. From what I have played, contrary to what some here seem to want, the druid is not a 3.5 can opener that does everything. He NEEDS a defender or he dies (horribly). He can stop enemies dead in their tracks but he NEEDS the strikers to deal damage. He has very little in the way of leader like abilities (which is a bit confusing, but I imagine there may be later powers) so he NEEDS a leader for healing and support.

He's exactly like every other class in 4th edition, he fits a role and can kinda do other things, but not everything. This is exactly how it should be.

You make a good argument. I commend you.

Aegeri wrote:

Because 3 levels is clearly a whole class

:P

Just to reiterate here, I personally like the new wild shape, particularly because it's an at will. I was just trying to clarify where the preview seemed to fall short for some people. Aegeri, you do make good points, especially the essential one above since there is so much more of the class we are not able to see right now.

If we keep in mind that the 3e druid needed (according to many or most people) a certain amount of nerfing, then the way in which the devs executed their initial plans for this class becomes clearer. The druid in 4e does indeed retain its shapeshifting as hinted at in R&C, but the shapeshifting itself now has controller impact on combat rather than defender/striker impact.

I guess for people who want to shapeshift as a defender or striker...maybe the warden will fill that niche.

I do NOT like wildshape as written. Its fluff with no purpose. Consider doing this in your playtests:

Ignore wildshape as written. Replace with "shifty: you can shift one square as a minor action".

Change the beast keyword to "shifty" keyword. You can only use shifty powers during a turn in which you shift. You can continue to use shifty powers on successfive actions without shifting, but if you use a non-shifty power, you must shift again to gain access to shifty powers.


What I just wrote is the druid wildhsape with its fluff rubbed off.

This controller has to burn a minor action (shift) to get access to some of its powers. Thats it. Wildshape could easily be folded INTO the powers themselves to re-incorporate the fluff I removed:

Raven FOrm: a utility power granting flight as a move action. Fluff text, "you transform into a raven and fly across the battlefield."

Bears Embrace: An encounter attack power that deals damage and has a "grab" special function. Fluff text, "You transform into a brown bear, rearing up and grabbing your opponent in a deadly embrace."

In essence, wildshape is an at-will minor action to shift 1 square. Not bad as far as features go, but harldy something that screams "druid", and not nearly as interesting as defining mechanics like hunter's quarry, combat challenges, etc.

I would have preferred something more along the lines of channel divinity, but rather than having a static "fixed" god-power, you get access to special powers based on the animal you wildshape into. Shift into a cat form (panther, lion, etc) and gain the "pounce" power and access to the generic beast powers on your list. Change into a Bear and get access to the "Bears embrace" power and access to all the generic beast powers. Change into a raven, and gain the "ravens flight" move action power that ignores all terrain obstacles (mechanically a teleport like fey step), etc. etc.

That would be much more interesting and the fluff (I am a bear, rawr) would have meaning.