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edit: wrong loc

from another thread



I want Barbarians to be a Great Axe/Maul wielding machine of death in light armor charging around, handing out free death like it was food samples at Costco!

But as a design it does not lend itself that way other than not giving the barbarian heavy armor and shield feats for free. We can all pretty much agree that a barbarian should pick up Chain Proficiency as a minimum since dex is a tertiary stat at best. I call that a feat sink and bad design. There needs to be more incentive to stay in light armor other than one more square of movement.

If the lack of the Shield/Armor feats for a Str/Con class is "design" enough to call buying said feat "going against design" or bad choices then warlords and clerics upgrading to scale armor is a bad choice, along with shields and to an extent upgrading to superior weapons for everyone.

Why shield+heavy armor:

1. Dex is a tertiary stat. Chain is a minimum, not too much disagreement here I hope.

2. Rage effects: You lose your Rage Effects when you get knocked to 0hp or lower. Getting the most out of your barbarian means using your Daily to get the effect earlier in the encounter and staying up as long as possible. These effects are good enough and Barbarians are high threat enough that every point of AC is needed. In my mind, even if you drop acouple of pips of damage.

Damage on 2-handers isn't that much better than 1-handers:

1. Its not. Don't fool yourself with high crit and brutal whatever. The max damage you can get on a standard 1[W] hit is 12. Your averages may fluctuate a point or two. But its not worth enough to make me want to lower my AC during Stone Tempest Rage, chancing losing that lovely 18-20crit. Lowering my average by acouple pips but increasing my longevity so that Rage of the Primal Beast (the massive to-hit bonus) lasts as long as possible (increasing my damage over the encounter).

2. No class incentive to use a 2-hander. No +1 to hit with them (like rogues with Daggers), no extra damage, no added effect. The only thing a 2-hander has is acouple of pips of average damage. Power-Attack with a 2-hander would be the only incentive BUT without a Righteous Brand to up the +hit you lower your bonus to hit below the ideal range when using one of those great weapons like the Executioner's Axe.

3. Don't mention Executioner's Axe+Minotaur as a reason that 2-handers are good. Its a Monster Race which is DM discretion only and is not balanced with Brutal due to size increases on the weapon. The idea that an large Executioner Axe is a 2d6 high crit, brutal 2 is silly to me. But oh well, balancing against house rules is not good for comparisons or seeing if something is "working as intended".

I have been throwing ideas for making Barbarian more for 2-handers and light armor in the DDI forums. I would suggest anyone wanting this also to pop in and give their suggestions also

nightwalker450 wrote:

The real issue is where does their bonus damage come from as a striker? Just adding it on to powers, does lead to broken multiclassing. As well I'm not sure how someone will even multiclass into this, but then again multiclassing swordmage doesn't give you a defender ability, so multiclassing Barbarian might not make you a striker... Possibly just get the Temp HP for killing people.

Well I think most of their extra damage is absorbed by the extras with the Rage Forms (although some deal with movement and other fun bits not just raw damage), I think the extras on the At Wills needs to be addressed, otherwise which meleeing class wouldn't mind PMCing to add on extra damage?

nimrand wrote:

I'm not sure that's a bad thing. PMC is considered underpowered by many. I don't really agree with that, but the Barbarian could create a solid PMC option. You have to give up your paragon path, though, and there are plenty of other good options there, too. So, I don't think Barbarian PMC will be so good that everyone will choose it.

A). Its not under powered its Diffrently Powered, so some people have trouble seeing it.

B). +1d6 raw damage for paladins who are primary defenders will Make it worthwhile for them. The Shifting power is strictly ebtter then the ranger equilivent, et cetra. It may not be universal, but it will rule out any other options to PMC to/from (melee and melee wise) which is BAD. And should be avoided.