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4 years ago ::
Jun 06, 2009 - 7:18PM
#31
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"Some NPC dialogue mixed in, but end result is a foregone conclusion anyway and hearing them/talking to them doesn't help the completion of the adventure."
Truly, truly tragic.
At first, I assumed that Wizards shyed away from printing adventures that relied on heavier role-playing, detective work, and intrigue simply because 4th edition was new...
And combat is easier to write for rather than detective work. I mean, there's all sorts of investigative traps and subtleties that might need house rulings or eyeballed DCs that the Wizards staff wanted to have hard-and-fast adventures with established rules first.
Then a year passed.
Perhaps this is the 'back to basics' approach WOTC is taking; perhaps this will be permanent. Taking the game back to its roots as a simpler dungeon'-crawlin' in-universe game seems to be similar to their current strategy as well with Magic: The Gathering, which has a focus on "casting spells" and "planar dueling" rather than "playing cards" and "ending the match."
If you are hungry for mysteries, homemade adventures (which are tremendously difficult to write) may be your best bet... or to look through old issues of Dungeon.
I will recall my all-time favorite adventures ever revolved around a very Batman-esque scenario in Sharn, where vigilante players fought the evil detective, Victor-Saint Demain. I would like to formally implore all of you to look up the best-written mystery Wizards has ever published outside of actual novels.
The third chapter, "Hell's Heart" is available on the WOTC website, but it makes no sense without the first to chapters, "Quoth the Raven" (Available in Dungeon 150) and the spectacular first adventure, "Chimes at Midnight" (Dungeon 133).
I can't tell you why Wizards shys away from re-hiring Nicholas Logue; he wrote two published adventures (Voyage of the Golden Dragon and one other) as well as dozens of adventures and columns in Dungeon. Every piece I ever saw him write revolved around nothing short of a Dick Tracy story arc, a Batman hardcover, and better-written than half of James Patterson's work.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 07, 2009 - 8:36PM
#32
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has anyone talked or e-mailed with anyone at Wizards about this issue?
I've been bothered by the same lack of non-dungeon crawl adventures as well. Playing d&d had always been as much about roleplaying political intrigue and mysteries and toehr sych as much as killing monsters and stealing their treasure.
And the limited number of adventures they seem able to present vis-avis what they promise is troubling as well.
My gut reaction is that we are looking at a situation where a small number of people is just not able to keep up with their work. Sloppy editorial as has been noted many times before is a clear sign of people rushing to meet deadlines.
Anyone know how many people work on dungeon and dragon?
I don't think anyone is trying to do a bad job but I think managment is failing the fans here. Content should be delivered as promised and to a professional level of quality.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 07, 2009 - 11:04PM
#33
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2003
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I like variety, so an occassional foray away from combat being the most common type of encounter in an adventure would be ok.
Classic D&D includes non-combat encounters - look for some adventures that have skill challenges and puzzles, for example, and you'll find a few. And that's probably the right number. But if you want your game to swing heavily towards non-combat encounters, for example, and focus on political intrigue, then yeah, you're usually going to have to come up with more stuff yourself based on some examples you've seen - whether in D&D or in any other media or game.
Personally, I miss Side Treks a lot - that's why I love Dungeon Delve. It's a book of 30 Side Treks! Not enough short adventure modules (which are infinitely easier and more time-saving to prep for) get published imo, so Dungeon Delve was refreshing.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2009 - 5:41AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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I posted a new thread at ENworld as a compilation thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rp … rawls.html
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4 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2009 - 2:40PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2004
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My main problem is lack of continuity and focus on random combat encounters.
We are in an age of RPG video games where the combat mechanics, graphics, and fight scenes are extensively researched and developed to an awesome level. While computer games can do math, speed up the encounters, and will always have faster pace action than tabletop DnD, there still is a void left by video games... rich, deep, dynamic storytelling!
I want dungeons that are continuous to a large campaign - where an object come across on the first day will have massive implications in level 30. I want a well written campaign with playable, continuous modules that are 60% encounter, 40% non-encounter. Of the 60% encounter, 75% i want to be fighting, the other 25% to be skill challenges or puzzles. (I define an encounter as anything that gives you XP).
DnD Excels at this, but we aren't getting written material. We're getting action paced encounters that are loosely strung together with a minor, poorly crafted plot, that ultimately get boring because of overuse. i.e. we're getting Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. I want Batman Dark Knight.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2009 - 3:24PM
#36
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I've hated the emphasis on dull, linear, hack'n'slash dungeon-crawls that has dominated 4E since its inception.
'All combat, all the time' gets boring very quickly. We've seen nothing as free-form as 'Assassin's Knot', as epic as Dragonlance or Castle Amber, or as complex as 'Great Modron March'.
The game's been out for over a year and all we've seen is dungeon crawls.
That said, the Forbidden Forge adventure set in Eberron is actually okay. Different starter hooks, an open ending and an outside chance the final battle can be solved by diplomacy. It's no masterpiece, but maybe it's a start. I've never liked Eberron before, but perhaps it might actually be a source of non-combat adventures this time out?
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4 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2009 - 2:08AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Jul 11, 2003
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I was reading an old article about adenture design : http://ptgptb.org/0012/design1.html and http://ptgptb.org/0013/design2.html. I feel dungeon adventures are light years from these concepts.  For Heart of the Forbidden Forge, well it's again a series of rooms. Ok, there might be interesting stuff in these rooms, but it gets boring to start the adventure at room #1 and hack your way to the BBEG room. When I read the adventure hooks, I thought it would have been much more interesting to have a first part in the adventure where the PCs stumble upon the problem of the forge. For instance, in the adventure hook : missing agent, it is said the PCs learn the Citadel is concerned because
an elite agent, an artificer named Jelia, is missing.
She was recently working on a case involving war
research in Old Cyre, and her last report indicates
that she went to Darguun in the company of goblin
mercs.
It would have been much more interesting to know only that an agent went missing while working on a case involving war research in Old Cyre. But the PCs would have to discover that she went to Darguun in the company of goblins mercs on her own will (I could see some red herring where the PCs are not sure wether she was captured or not).
Basically I would have loved an investigation part and then the forge itself.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2009 - 10:18AM
#38
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This is the whole problem with the 4E adventure design.
Eberron sells itself as 'fantasy noir', but all we will get is soulless dungeon crawls. And while I think 'Forge' is better than most, it's still a dungeon crawl.
Despite what is claimed in the 4E DMG, I do not feel WotC will ever feature an adventure outside of the 'twenty combat encounters and a skill challenge' format.
Though I would LOVE to be proved wrong.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2009 - 2:42PM
#39
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Dungeon® magazine has always been *the* place to publish adventures of all stripes, and it publishes the best of what it receives.
"Dungeon crawls" have been a staple of D&D since the very first 1st Edition adventures (Keep on the Borderlands, Slave Pits of the Undercity, Descent into the Depths of the Earth, Tomb of Horrors, Against the Giants, etc.), but when we look at the submission pile, we look for great adventures — not just great dungeon crawls. (Incidentally, most of the submissions we receive from the gaming community are dungeon crawls. What does that tell you?)
Chris
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4 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2009 - 7:41PM
#40
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Given the "theme" of 3e (or was that 3.5?) was "return to the dungeon" and how all of the 4e adventures (published or in Dungeon) have been dungeon crawls, I wouldn't even think about submitting an adventure that wasn't. Not if I wanted it to see print...
Speaking of going to the submission pile, exactly how many submissions have made it into the magazines so far? Have their been any "great" fan adventures yet?
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