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5 years ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 7:08AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Aug 24, 2005
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*adds name to petition*
Overview, Overview, Overview!
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5 years ago ::
Aug 29, 2008 - 10:33PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2003
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Providing us with an overview would require them to have an overview in the first place. At this point from the adventures given and the errors everyone else has mentioned from the setting I'm begining to think that these are just adventures they are calling an adventure path.
The staff and writers at Dungeon DO HAVE an internal campaign overview - they Just are not sharing it with DMs. I understand the "new" edition is "open" for individual development by myriad DMs. But, for an adventure path, DMs need to be educated on what's coning in the future - a campaign overview! They have one, and they ain't sharing. Very frustrating. I'll pay for the freakin' thing if that's what they want.
-------- Don (Greyson) --------
Non-smoker, White, Non-golfer, U.S. American
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5 years ago ::
Aug 30, 2008 - 7:45AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2005
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Overview please
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5 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 6:00AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2008
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Originally Posted by AsmodeusLore
Can we get a copy of the Scales of War overview?
The short answer to this question is “no.” The problem is that we’ve mapped out an elaborate plot that covers level 1 all the way through level 30 and there are a number of surprises along the way. Those “grand reveal” moments won’t be nearly as impactful if they’ve leaked out via plot summaries and/or an overview of where the Path is going. I can assure you that the current fears about the lack of a compelling archvillain, or a logically complete structure, or major NPCs, or a real hook are all misguided. Just wait and see!
Ummm does this guy even PLAY D&D? Does he not understand the concept of an Adventure Overview? DMs dont NEED to worry about being surprised, they need to know whats going to happen, so they can drop hints and set up plots that will tie in together. Sure, all that stuff they say they have planned might be fantastic, but if the DM has no way to know its coming and such prepare his story for it, the events will seem random, and dropped in if not planned for. Looks like Ill be skipping this path until the whole thing is released and I get my "overview" from the completed adventure, or they realize they are being idiots and release the overview. Which is sad, because Im sure im not the only one who feels this way. Once again, WoTC can take some pointers from Paizo. They started up their 3rd AP last month with Second Darkness. Got the first part of that adventure, what do you think is in the back? *Gasp* AP Overview!
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5 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 6:05AM
#35
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Ummm does this guy even PLAY D&D? Does he not understand the concept of an Adventure Overview? DMs dont NEED to worry about being surprised, they need to know whats going to happen, so they can drop hints and set up plots that will tie in together. Sure, all that stuff they say they have planned might be fantastic, but if the DM has no way to know its coming and such prepare his story for it, the events will seem random, and dropped in if not planned for. Looks like Ill be skipping this path until the whole thing is released and I get my "overview" from the completed adventure, or they realize they are being idiots and release the overview. Which, is sad, because Im sure im not the only one who feels this way. Once again, WoTC can take some pointers from Paizo. They started up their 3rd AP this month with Second Darkness. Got the first part of that adventure, what do you think is in the back? *Gasp* AP Overview!
Well, it's either that they really believe the story is just too good to let out of the bag (similar to other stuff they play close to the vest for unknown reasons), or perhaps they're worried that with an overview, we won't need to subscribe to Dragon, and just make our own adventure path.
(actually, "either" isn't the best word - there could be other reasons)
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5 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 6:21AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2008
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Well, it's either that they really believe the story is just too good to let out of the bag (similar to other stuff they play close to the vest for unknown reasons), or perhaps they're worried that with an overview, we won't need to subscribe to Dragon, and just make our own adventure path.
(actually, "either" isn't the best word - there could be other reasons)
Neither of those reasons are sufficient to withhold the overview, if you ask me. To the first, if the story is THAT good, the DMs should know about it and wil solve the 2nd part by subscribing to get such an amazing AP. Really, the overview is for the DM, not the players. The only reason I see them withholding this is because players can read Dungeon as well, and such spoil the campaign. However, using that logic, they shouldnt release the individual adventures themselves! The players could read Dungeon magazine and spoil the plot! Oh noes! Ok I lied. Its not the only reason I see them withholding the overview. I firmly believe they just dont even HAVE one, and are taking submitted adventures, and having editors adjust them to fit the "theme" on the fly. Prove me wrong WoTC, prove me wrong. Release the overview 
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5 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 7:45AM
#37
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Neither of those reasons are sufficient to withhold the overview, if you ask me. To the first, if the story is THAT good, the DMs should know about it and wil solve the 2nd part by subscribing to get such an amazing AP. Really, the overview is for the DM, not the players. The only reason I see them withholding this is because players can read Dungeon as well, and such spoil the campaign. However, using that logic, they shouldnt release the individual adventures themselves! The players could read Dungeon magazine and spoil the plot! Oh noes! Ok I lied. Its not the only reason I see them withholding the overview. I firmly believe they just dont even HAVE one, and are taking submitted adventures, and having editors adjust them to fit the "theme" on the fly. Prove me wrong WoTC, prove me wrong. Release the overview
Oh, I totally agree - they are insufficient reasons to say "no" to the overview requests. I'm just casting about for their possible justifications, which (if I allow cynicism to sneak in) could be:
1. They don't actually have one.
2. They really believe it's so good they just can't give away the big reveals (and really, very few stories are that good)
3. They don't want people to take the overview, decide it's not that interesting and/or make their own AP from the plot outline, and then drop their subscription.
Regardless of the truth of any of the above reasons, failing to provide an overview is simply unwise. It doesn't earn them any goodwill, especially since they say it's so good.
Let's face it: in 18 months, the campaign I'm playing in is HIGHLY unlikely to still be going, especially if I have no idea where it's going.
But I'm preaching to the choir. :D
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5 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 9:04AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2003
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Ummm does this guy even PLAY D&D? Does he not understand the concept of an Adventure Overview? DMs dont NEED to worry about being surprised, they need to know whats going to happen, so they can drop hints and set up plots that will tie in together.
Good question - does this guy DM or play D&D? As you ably noted Kabump, this much pleaded for campaign overview is FOR THE DMS. NOT THE PLAYERS. The last thing a DM is gonna do is say, "Hey, I got the overview, and I'd like to spoil the campaign. So, this is what happens..."
Buehler's answer should have been, "Yes. We'll get the SoW campaign overview to DMs. In the spirit of 4E we want to provide DMs an incentive to use our product. Plus, we want to help them tell stories, build worlds, and run great campaigns." I know. I am dreaming.
We don't need a detailed, 18-page abstract of Scales of War's "elaborate plot" revealing every secret of the campaign. We just need to know, in general terms, what is ahead of us in the adventure path. A two or three page outline with one or two paragraphs per adventure shall suffice. As a DM of 24 years and a former Living Greyhawk triad, I have never run a long term campaign like this.
And, since when is it "misguided" for DMs to need material that informs them on how to plan for and execute their campaigns? Misguided? Message Board Trolls? What else is Wizards of the Coast gonna call us? Non-paying, former customer sound good?
Where did that Randy Buehler quote come from?
-------- Don (Greyson) --------
Non-smoker, White, Non-golfer, U.S. American
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5 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 11:19AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Dec 19, 2001
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Where did that Randy Buehler quote come from?
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn … /20080902a
Load of horsecrap if you ask me. Savage Tide had an article in Dungeon that gave an outline of all 12 adventures. It was five or six pages total, with one page being the big title and opening paragraph. As others have said, DMs need this info. We need to know where it's going so we can plan where to lead the group. Otherwise, it's the blind leading the blind.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 03, 2008 - 11:46AM
#40
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Date Joined:
May 28, 2005
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More choir preaching coming, Not only does Paizo release a simple, two or three paragraph, overview of each module in the latest Adventure Path, Second Darkness, but they also have an actual release schedule nine months in advance delving half way into the next AP! With, I might add, blurbs on the plot line of that AP, Legacy of Fire, which looks wicked cool by the way. I have several questions if anyone can answer them for me. 1) What is Randy Buehler's job in relation to Scales of War? 2) Is that quote accurate or is someone trying to stir up trouble?* 3) Has there been any word from WotC about this issues besides the alleged quote of Randy Buehler? Tom P.S. I just thought of something. If this explanation is true then they should recommend that a GM not read a chapter ahead in Super Modules like the Red Hand of Doom. In fact, a GM should never spend any time preparing at all because that will ruin the "Grand Reveal". What nonsense. * = I was typing this post when Reveal's message (above) was posted so I see the quote is real. Thanks Reveal for the confirmation but as the bearer of bad news I'm afraid we're going to have to throw you in a well.
Once again, WoTC can take some pointers from Paizo. They started up their 3rd AP last month with Second Darkness. Got the first part of that adventure, what do you think is in the back? *Gasp* AP Overview!
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