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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 10:54AM
#131
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I should show this cartoon to my group and listen to them whine about how offensive it is... hours of fun!
(my group is not playing 4e by choice - they're only doing it to humor me. We have a rule at the table that they aren't allowed to complain about the system during a session, just to make sure they stay on track. Even then, they still complain about rituals costing too much).
Wouldn't it be fairer on your group to play something that they would enjoy?
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 10:57AM
#132
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Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2008
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Wouldn't it be fairer on your group to play something that they would enjoy?
/agree
I'm a 4e avenger, but none of the friends I play with prefer it. i don't force anything on them.
Then again its my view that D&D is like pizza. Even when it's "bad" it's still pretty good.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:01AM
#133
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Honestly, as a fan of open-minded two-sided discourse and its ultimate effects on product quality, I was unimpressed by the characterization of the "troll," but I was significantly more offended by the fact that the people we're counting on to write this new edition of the game find poop jokes funny.
Huzzah.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:04AM
#134
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I didn't think it was terribly funny (amusing enough, I suppose...the kobold chorus of "I love you!" made me chuckle). I was mostly annoyed that they counted it as an article release for Dragon--bad form, says I.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:06AM
#135
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Date Joined:
Jan 28, 2004
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Seriously, a campaign setting that tells you nothing about the setting is not useful.
Really? Or you want perhaps a large amount of stuff? because eberron worked as well, and it was not saying 'nothing', from all I saw.
the spirit with which Wizards is dealing with decent. People are allowed to dislike the product. We do not owe you your livelyhood or enjoyment of your product. Expressing our disappointment does not make us trolls.
Yes - except that there *is* BAWWWWWWWWWWWWing and hating and trolling.
Disliking the product don't allow you to be a jerkass. There is a way to express it.
Honestly, as a fan of open-minded two-sided discourse and its ultimate effects on product quality, I was unimpressed by the characterization of the "troll," but I was significantly more offended by the fact that the people we're counting on to write this new edition of the game find poop jokes funny.
Huzzah.
Another problem; taking it so personaly.
It's not the highest in intelectual discourse; but as stated, it was aimed at the... louder ones. And the ones who deserved it - on *both* sides.
I see also a personal frustration with all this mess from the guys who made it; the humanity of them. Frankly, were I a game designer working here, I'd couldn't stand all the bile and fire aimed at us.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:09AM
#136
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Date Joined:
Apr 17, 2008
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Honestly, as a fan of open-minded two-sided discourse and its ultimate effects on product quality, I was unimpressed by the characterization of the "troll," but I was significantly more offended by the fact that the people we're counting on to write this new edition of the game find poop jokes funny.
Huzzah.
And once again the punchline flies right over the head of forum goers everywhere.
Everytime I read this or other things about this video I chuckle, because it never fails. People fail to grasp the joke what so ever.
Chances are, if you are being offended by the joke, you're a guilty party. One way or another.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:29AM
#137
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Really? Or you want perhaps a large amount of stuff? because eberron worked as well, and it was not saying 'nothing', from all I saw.
Yes - except that there *is* BAWWWWWWWWWWWWing and hating and trolling.
Disliking the product don't allow you to be a jerkass. There is a way to express it.
Another problem; taking it so personaly.
It's not the highest in intelectual discourse; but as stated, it was aimed at the... louder ones. And the ones who deserved it - on *both* sides.
I see also a personal frustration with all this mess from the guys who made it; the humanity of them. Frankly, were I a game designer working here, I'd couldn't stand all the bile and fire aimed at us.
Your right, eberron was light on details, almost to the point where the setting suffered for that, yet, it massively outwayed the amount of infomation that is contained within the Forgotten realms campaign setting.
Even when it had less space devoted to detailing the world it still gave a far better idea of what the world was about, and what the individual countries where like.
There is some trolling, sure, this is the internet, it happens. But, the characterisation of dissenting voices, which many of use feel is exactly what this video boils down too, as trolls does not help either. Did wizards mean to paint all those who dislike its products and speak against them as trolls? Possibly not, but are they offering a clarification to lower the amount of offence it is causing to people who might still be customers if it where not for poorly thought out marketing stunts? They are surely not.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 11:46AM
#138
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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I'd say that it's more along the lines that, from the WotC view, they are the DM, and the Customers are the Players. So they put in all this work (it may not be perfect, but it's the game they want to run, and there's plenty of opportunity for the Player to have fun), and then a lot of the Players complain they don't like it. So, of course, they don't have to play it. But instead of spending their valuable free time finding a DM they DO like, they sit in front of their computers and complain about it. And this makes no sense, so WotC jokes about it. Now, the above is just my take on how WotC sees US, and why they feel anyone who doesn't like their system is a Troll. I, myself, certainly do not feel this way, and I'm INCREDIBLY glad that there is an Errata Forum now! :D:D:D:D I thought the video was great, all the little nuances about it were hilarious. But, again, that's just my opinion.  And darn you, Nemo! You don't think Chuck Norris jokes OR Poop Jokes are funny?? You bastard! :P
Resident Logic Cannon
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5 years ago ::
Sep 24, 2008 - 1:31PM
#139
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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And darn you, Nemo! You don't think Chuck Norris jokes OR Poop Jokes are funny?? You bastard! :P
In the circles in which I run, my undying hatred for all things fun is well documented.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 28, 2008 - 4:28AM
#140
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2004
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But instead of spending their valuable free time finding a [game] they DO like, they sit in front of their computers and complain about it. And this makes no sense
It makes excellent sense. People here like D&D and want it to be a good game without flaws. How can that happen if they don't voice their opinions.
But when those opinions have been voiced, they've frequently been challenged on those opinions by people who deride them as "haters" and "trolls." Quite naturally they then defend and support their opinions. Where this is polite, it is a productive process. Where it isn't, it is sometimes not. But the cartoon is very strongly showing critics of 4e as stupid whiney trolls. That's insulting. I've always been quite clear in supporting what I say, but that's the characterisation of me they have drawn.
But I think Nemo_the_Lost put his finger on it best when he said the most disturbing thing about it is that the people who are now the custodians of the game we all love, are people who find poop jokes funny.
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