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5 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2008 - 5:45PM
#111
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'meh
The cartoon was cute, but nothing special.
The 4E attacks on the paizo boards, and the self aggrandizing found here were more entertaining.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2008 - 6:28PM
#112
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1. Correct
2. Incorrect. The game is designed to take into account a standard board. With all the powers that move, shift, etc, it would be a nightmare to play without minis. Powers are even listed in terms of "squares."
3. Incorrect. This is a moneygrab, but that's what businesses do. And if you don't think that WotC is all about moneygrabs you clearly forgot about all the billions of splat books from 3E.
Another point about your third statement is that that 4E is not a useful improvement of 3E. Its a completely different system. 4E is so different, that it has simply just opened up its own problems and benefits. It has no relation to 3E.
3rd Edition had the same issues with the way the game was designed. Attacks of opportunity, reach, spell templates and more would have been quite confusing without the use of a board based on a square grid. The only edition to be divorced from miniatures in any meaningful way was 2nd Edition.
The term moneygrab implies that they solely did something for the purpose of making money, and no other reason. That's a very cynical stance to take about people, no matter what company they work for. I should think that the D&D developers have at least some attachment to the actual game of D&D in some way shape or form... there are plenty of more profitable businesses out there, so sticking to tabletop RPGs requires at least a little love on their end.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 12, 2008 - 6:39PM
#113
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Date Joined:
Apr 22, 2004
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Yes, especially when the company dedicates such a vast resource to seeking our input and allowing us to discuss our views of their product.
To continue with the 'box of chocolates,' analogy, it is rather more like your favorite mixed box being discontinued and the replacement product being composed of at least 50% of those nasty (insert your least favorite chocolate type here). Then the people who like the new mix say to you 'but you can just buy the new boxes and switch out the chocolates you don't like.'
Wrong. I wanted the old boxes, and that's all I'm going to be spending my money on. If it was a storefront, I'd ask the manager why the change. If they had comment cards I'd leave one. If there were people standing around yelling at me for not liking the new boxes, I'd punch them in the throat.
Here on the forums, we combine all of that.
And yes, I've read 4E. I've tried 4E. If you take most of the mechanical changes and port them back to 3.5, it actually improves the system. Other than that, it actually makes combat less interesting for me, and it mechanically dulls down skill related events as well. And that's the problem we have. It's not that there's just a lack of options versus what we had before, it's that the mechanical changes to the system have a few major improvements, but overall are actually more awkward and annoying than the previous one.
But the bottom line is, if the company wants feedback, they'll get it, often in terrible ways when they drop a product favored by so many.
In the end, though, it's the money that talks, and that's why I keep expanding my list of 3.5 titles (haven't had the cash to get them all yet) but I won't be buying any 4E ones.
I think the box of chocolates analogy is a poor one. Chocolates disappear. They get eaten. If you want more chocolate you have to buy more.
A D&D edition is not like that. Your campaign finishes. You roll up new characters and play a new campaign. Yeah, they're no longer making new 3.5 stuff, but there's a;ready way more material than any group could possibly use, want, or need. There's simply nothing left for them to put out, save for immensely niche products that wouldn't sell well.
So what does it matter if a new edition comes out? You won't be buying it, and it won't stop you from playing your favorite edition. Unless your group switches, but that's more of a personal problem than any fault of the company.
I've said time and again: I still own my 3.5 books, I still like the game, and I will still play it. 4E gives me more options, not less.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2008 - 12:07AM
#114
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2004
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Yeah, they're no longer making new 3.5 stuff, but there's a;ready way more material than any group could possibly use, want, or need. There's simply nothing left for them to put out, save for immensely niche products that wouldn't sell well.
That's a very well put point. It doesn't help me because I like a lot of 4e so I'm stuck with a system that I mostly like barring irritating aspects. Still, it's a valid point to many of the 3.5 fans. It will get harder to buy 3.5 material as time goes on though and it sucks for 3.5'ers that their forums and community suddenly went bang.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 13, 2008 - 6:20AM
#115
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Date Joined:
Apr 17, 2008
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That's a very well put point. It doesn't help me because I like a lot of 4e so I'm stuck with a system that I mostly like barring irritating aspects. Still, it's a valid point to many of the 3.5 fans. It will get harder to buy 3.5 material as time goes on though and it sucks for 3.5'ers that their forums and community suddenly went bang.
*points down to previous edition general* It sucks that people don't actually use their forum. I agree there.
There's enough splat out there that I doubt it will all become scarcely available. I can still find pre d20 7th Sea material.. (just not on the cheap like I had hoped) given that I bet a splat's print run is larger than the entire run of 7th sea, there's going to be enough supply out there to last until -at least- Fifth Edition.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2008 - 6:50AM
#116
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2008
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I thought it was very funny and have enjoyed watching it three times.
My entire group has happily converted from 3.5 to 4 and I didn't get the sense that the kobolds symbolized me b/c I like the new edition.
Thats because you're the farmer not the kobold.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2008 - 9:00AM
#117
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Date Joined:
Jul 17, 2008
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WotC has adopted a policy of not wanting people without a sense of humor about themselves as customers.
It's a good thing you're not a representative of WoTC.
A company that says things like that have a way of getting their wishes granted and it's a rare company that says "Yay, our market share is going down!".
To that end, they make a point of openly mocking everone to separate the divine from the swine. Those that complain about being mocked get the proverbial boot.
Wizards. If this is true, please proverbially "boot me", since I have no interest in being a customer of a company with this policy.
Awesome you are not, so far as I can tell, a representative of WoTC so it's perhaps best if you don't speak for their policies. They're making enough bad marketing on their own.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2008 - 9:07AM
#118
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2007
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It's a good thing you're not a representative of WoTC.
A company that says things like that have a way of getting their wishes granted and it's a rare company that says "Yay, our market share is going down!".
Wizards. If this is true, please proverbially "boot me", since I have no interest in being a customer of a company with this policy.
Awesome you are not, so far as I can tell, a representative of WoTC so it's perhaps best if you don't speak for their policies. They're making enough bad marketing on their own.
Fail.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2008 - 9:22AM
#119
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They're making enough bad marketing on their own.
As many already pointed out, it does nothing but send out a message that they have a sense of humor. If you are not a fan, then you will still not buy any of their material anyways. If you are a rabid fan, then you will continue to buy because you are rabid. If you fall somewhere in between then you probably already have good sense and a good sense of humor and know how to take this as it is, just a joke. Anyone who takes this any more seriously than it was intended probably falls into the extreme category and is not the target. Anything has its extreme fans or critics, but you certainly do not cater to them.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. --George Orwell There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. --Howard Zinn He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster. --Friedrich Nietzsche 
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5 years ago ::
Sep 14, 2008 - 9:28AM
#120
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2007
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As many already pointed out, it does nothing but send out a message that they have a sense of humor. If you are not a fan, then you will still not buy any of their material anyways. If you are a rabid fan, then you will continue to buy because you are rabid. If you fall somewhere in between then you probably already have good sense and a good sense of humor and know how to take this as it is, just a joke. Anyone who takes this any more seriously than it was intended probably falls into the extreme category and is not the target. Anything has its extreme fans or critics, but you certainly do not cater to them.
^The grain of truth in my original post.
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