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To summarize the thread: Having travel options is good. Especially at epic level.

The best part about all of this? It's not even an issue to people with a competent DM. If you really, really, really want the players to take the cave route, then have the dragon spot them as they start flying. He comes down and attacks them. The PCs get knocked down, fight for a little bit, and then the dragon retreats to his home in the mountains. If the PCs try the ritual again, the dragon attacks again. And then maybe some of the monsters in the caves hear the noises and come out to investigate. Or maybe the dragon is so tough that he backs the PCs into the caves.

But that's assuming that you want to force the PCs to use the caves or climb the mountain or whatever.

Etiquette_Gnome wrote:

As I mentioned earlier, it depends on how/when you can turn it off. Does the spell end as soon as you touch the ground? Are you able to maintain your full action capability so long as you don't actually fly for that interval, or are you stuck for 10 hours being unable to do anything but crash and/or fly?

Yeah, not to mention that there's really no ruling as to what happens when a creature with an overland flight speed, but no tactical flight speed, enters combat.

Do you automatically start falling the moment initiative is rolled? Do you glide to the ground? If so, then how fast?

I haven't seen that stuff addressed anywhere.

Archtyrant Terevoth]I don't like it because sometimes the 2nd choice is going to be something that actually makes sense given the circumstances. if you've got something flying, like a dragon, it's going to intercept the party if it sees them in the air, and then what? TPK?

Winged Boots.

Anybody who plans on flying at lethal altitudes, whether it be with Overland Flight, a flying mountain, an airship, or even an encounter power, should either have a pair of these or take similar precautions. A TPK can also be proactively stopped by the party by simply not flying that high.

And in the case of being intercepted by a dragon, fleeing is still an option. You maintain flight as long as you don't take any other actions. So while a dragon can outpace a group of PCs in the air, the group should still have time enough to land and counter attack before taking too much damage, or any damage at all if the spot the dragon soon enough (especially if you just plummet and let your Winged Boots take care of the rest).

Also, as long as you are within 20 squares of the ground, you land safely (see Crashing and Safe Distance, pg 48). That's a 100ft safety net. Plenty high enough to fly effectively over most terrain without risking TPK at the same time.

I don't like it because sometimes the 2nd choice is going to be something that actually makes sense given the circumstances. if you've got something flying, like a dragon, it's going to intercept the party if it sees them in the air, and then what? TPK?[/quote]
Winged Boots.

Anybody who plans on flying at lethal altitudes, whether it be with Overland Flight, a flying mountain, an airship, or even an encounter power, should either have a pair of these or take similar precautions. A TPK can also be proactively stopped by the party by simply not flying that high.

And in the case of being intercepted by a dragon, fleeing is still an option. You maintain flight as long as you don't take any other actions. So while a dragon can outpace a group of PCs in the air, the group should still have time enough to land and counter attack before taking too much damage, or any damage at all if the spot the dragon soon enough (especially if you just plummet and let your Winged Boots take care of the rest).

Also, as long as you are within 20 squares of the ground, you land safely (see Crashing and Safe Distance, pg 48). That's a 100ft safety net. Plenty high enough to fly effectively over most terrain without risking TPK at the same time.

Titanium Dragon]This is exactly the problem. TPKing the party because they thought it'd be a good idea to fly up to the dragon's roost is lame, but letting them circumvent the climb up the mountain/through the tunnels/what have you via the ritual without consequence and after you warned them that there was a dragon up there is equally lame. You can't let them fight in the air, so basically you're stuck.

If I had a choice between using Overland Flight to reach a dragon's nest and climbing up the mountain, I'd rather do both: Fly over obstacles, dart between cover, up shear cliffs where I would be an appetizer on the wall. And for areas where flying would be risky or likely reveal my location to the dragon, I'll just walk it. I don't see why it has to be an either/or situation.

Then again, I'd rather avoid dragons if at all possible regardless of what movement modes are available. Dragons are hazardous to your health.

This is exactly the problem. TPKing the party because they thought it'd be a good idea to fly up to the dragon's roost is lame, but letting them circumvent the climb up the mountain/through the tunnels/what have you via the ritual without consequence and after you warned them that there was a dragon up there is equally lame. You can't let them fight in the air, so basically you're stuck.[/quote]
If I had a choice between using Overland Flight to reach a dragon's nest and climbing up the mountain, I'd rather do both: Fly over obstacles, dart between cover, up shear cliffs where I would be an appetizer on the wall. And for areas where flying would be risky or likely reveal my location to the dragon, I'll just walk it. I don't see why it has to be an either/or situation.

Then again, I'd rather avoid dragons if at all possible regardless of what movement modes are available. Dragons are hazardous to your health.

Titanium Dragon]This is why the airship or gryphon mount is not so bad - the dragon can take them out without TPKing the party for doing something stupid. Overland flight doesn't give me outs.

You mean take out the griffon or airship? If so, I'm not sure how plummeting to one's death is better than plummeting to one's death.

This is why the airship or gryphon mount is not so bad - the dragon can take them out without TPKing the party for doing something stupid. Overland flight doesn't give me outs.[/quote]
You mean take out the griffon or airship? If so, I'm not sure how plummeting to one's death is better than plummeting to one's death.

Archtyrant Terevoth]Yeah, not to mention that there's really no ruling as to what happens when a creature with an overland flight speed, but no tactical flight speed, enters combat.

Do you automatically start falling the moment initiative is rolled? Do you glide to the ground? If so, then how fast?

I haven't seen that stuff addressed anywhere.

I could be wrong, but I don't think anything happens to your overland flight speed when you enter combat, nor have I seen any rule that sets such a precedence. It would be like losing your walking speed because you entered combat. The only restriction I've seen is that you can use any other actions except a single move wrote: