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Switch to Forum Live View Overland Flight ritual shouldn't exist
5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 6:26PM #1
Titanium_Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 7,765
The lastest Dragon article, Ritually Speaking, contains the Overland Flight ritual which gives the entire party overland flight 20.

After flight was so heavily controlled in the PHB (and with good reason!) I'm wondering why they included this ritual. It completely circumvents all travel eight levels before True Portal does, and means that all epic characters can pretty much always fly and thus completely negate all groundbound encounters which don't happen indoors.

This is massively better than actual class powers, so I'm wondering why they thought it was a good idea.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 7:38PM #2
Zaukrie
Date Joined: Jan 7, 2004
Posts: 414
Great article, in general.

Anyone know how wide of long the walls are in earthen ramparts?
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 7:54PM #3
Ranadiel
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Titanium Dragon wrote:

The lastest Dragon article, Ritually Speaking, contains the Overland Flight ritual which gives the entire party overland flight 20.

After flight was so heavily controlled in the PHB (and with good reason!) I'm wondering why they included this ritual. It completely circumvents all travel eight levels before True Portal does, and means that all epic characters can pretty much always fly and thus completely negate all groundbound encounters which don't happen indoors.

This is massively better than actual class powers, so I'm wondering why they thought it was a good idea.


Ok I just spent 20 min writing a long post over why it isn't overpowered. However the board ate it, so I'm going to try for highlights instead.

-I can drive faster then this spell's flight speed(averages out to 10 mph) while I am in a school zone. They are hardly going to get all over the planet with this spell alone.
-Natural and unnatural obstacles can still stop them such as huricanes, magical cyclones, underdark, and oceans(which tend to be larger then 100 miles).
-Being attacked while using this flight spell==quick death
-Counter attacking while using this spell==quick and painful death
-The party still has to land every ten hours and stay there for half an hour, plenty of time for land encounters
-Griffons, which I believe have been stated to be paragon level appropriate mounts, would easily accomplish the exact same thing only with less dieing

And if we are comparing rituals(out of combat abilities) to powers(in combat abilities), I'm sure we could find lots of rituals that are better then powers, such as True Portal. However they also cost a lot to use, such as Overland Flight costing 5k a pop, which is only 2/25 of a 20th level magic item. However if you were to use it as your sole method of transportation, you would quickly be using up all of your cash on it. It is usefull for travelling in certain situations, where you otherwise can't get to your destination or if you need to get somewhere far away relatively quickly. However it is hardly a replacement for your legs when travelling.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 7:57PM #4
Fireclave
Date Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 2,158

Titanium Dragon]It completely circumvents all travel eight levels before True Portal does, and means that all epic characters can pretty much always fly and thus completely negate all groundbound encounters which don't happen indoors.


I disagree with your first point.

First, it doesn't circumvent all travel prior to True Portal. True Portal is basically 3e Greater Teleport. It allows you to go anywhere on in the world so long as you know where you're going, and it gets you there, regardless of distance in at least 10 minutes, which is the time necessary to perform the ritual.

Overland Flight flight grants you the ability to cover, at most, 100 miles of distance in 10.5 hours. I say at most because, regardless of whether you pause in your travels to investigate something, do battle, or stop for a potty break, the duration clock is still running. 100 miles is far, but nowhere near as far as True Portal's infinite range. Further, Overland Flight grants you no guarantee that you'll reach you're destination. Nor does it grant protection from the weather, monsters, or sky pirates. What's more, Overland Flight is a tad expensive. 5000gp is not a sum you would want to have to regularly pay unless you're sure really need it. If you have access to a permanent teleportation circle, Overland Flight is even more expensive than True Portal per casting.

As for your second point, I can see your concern. Overland Flight would make it hard to pin down a epic level group, even if they can't fight back while flying. Fortunately, its optional material, so the DM doesn't have to allow the ritual or only allow the ritual in scroll form if he doesn't want to deal with flying PCs. Likewise, a DM can also use this against the players as well, which levels the playing field a bit.

I, however, am glad they brought back serious magical flight. It's one of the things I truly missed f wrote:

It completely circumvents all travel eight levels before True Portal does, and means that all epic characters can pretty much always fly and thus completely negate all groundbound encounters which don't happen indoors.[/quote]
I disagree with your first point.

First, it doesn't circumvent all travel prior to True Portal. True Portal is basically 3e Greater Teleport. It allows you to go anywhere on in the world so long as you know where you're going, and it gets you there, regardless of distance in at least 10 minutes, which is the time necessary to perform the ritual.

Overland Flight flight grants you the ability to cover, at most, 100 miles of distance in 10.5 hours. I say at most because, regardless of whether you pause in your travels to investigate something, do battle, or stop for a potty break, the duration clock is still running. 100 miles is far, but nowhere near as far as True Portal's infinite range. Further, Overland Flight grants you no guarantee that you'll reach you're destination. Nor does it grant protection from the weather, monsters, or sky pirates. What's more, Overland Flight is a tad expensive. 5000gp is not a sum you would want to have to regularly pay unless you're sure really need it. If you have access to a permanent teleportation circle, Overland Flight is even more expensive than True Portal per casting.

As for your second point, I can see your concern. Overland Flight would make it hard to pin down a epic level group, even if they can't fight back while flying. Fortunately, its optional material, so the DM doesn't have to allow the ritual or only allow the ritual in scroll form if he doesn't want to deal with flying PCs. Likewise, a DM can also use this against the players as well, which levels the playing field a bit.

I, however, am glad they brought back serious magical flight. It's one of the things I truly missed from 3e.

Thinking about creating a race for 4e?  Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 8:11PM #5
Baik_Telor
Date Joined: Jan 20, 2006
Posts: 30
Don't like it?




Don't allow it.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2008 - 9:13PM #6
Titanium_Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 7,765

-I can drive faster then this spell's flight speed(averages out to 10 mph) while I am in a school zone. They are hardly going to get all over the planet with this spell alone.


Problem is they completely circumvent travel. Flying over the jungle really isn't as interesting as walking through it. Or I suppose, flying through the elemental chaos isn't as cool as navigating it on foot, as that's what you're doing at epic levels. Flying through hell isn't as cool as walking through it.

-Natural and unnatural obstacles can still stop them such as huricanes, magical cyclones, underdark, and oceans(which tend to be larger then 100 miles).


That's horribly cludgy, other than oceans, which is a good point.

-Being attacked while using this flight spell==quick death


Which means no one will ever be attacked while using it. *taps head*

-The party still has to land every ten hours and stay there for half an hour, plenty of time for land encounters


Problem is that they can completely circumvent land-bound encounters for ten hours - just fly over them. THIS is the real issue with it, even more so than travel.

And if we are comparing rituals(out of combat abilities) to powers(in combat abilities), I'm sure we could find lots of rituals that are better then powers, such as True Portal.


At level 20, people are still getting where they need to go. They're still adventurers. At level 28, when you get True Portal, typically speaking most groups aren't still really adventurers. They don't go on adventures. By this point typically you're going to where you need to go and travel is just a distraction. But before the upper end of epic, travel is meat.

The upshot of overland flight is that people simply cannot explore the astral sea and the elemental chaos without a fly speed of 20, as every epic level party will have this power. It also means that anything without a fly speed which doesn't dwell inside is completely worthless versus such a party, as they can simply fly over it and ignore it.

Don't like it?




Don't allow it.


I shouldn't have to not allow it, and more to the point, everything in Dragon is usable in the RPGA.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2008 - 12:40AM #7
Fireclave
Date Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 2,158

Flying over the jungle really isn't as interesting as walking through it.


I disagree. But this disagreement is based entirely on opinion, as I find being able to explore places while airborne very interesting indeed.

Problem is that they can completely circumvent land-bound encounters for ten hours - just fly over them. THIS is the real issue with it, even more so than travel.


Then give skybound encounters a shot. Or put the action at the destination rather than on the road.

Which means no one will ever be attacked while using it. *taps head*


I think it means the opposite. If a player is going to use Overland Flight, he should accept the risk that he is making himself vulnerable to attack and make the necessary preparations (or at least not fly too high). This is even more true if he has made any enemies by that level who know of his access to flight. To think otherwise, that the DM won't throw such an encounter because it would quickly kill him, would be metagaming and that PC would deserve a gravity-induced grave next to his equally unprepared brothers Scalesa'Mountain, Sailsin'Plate, Foughta'Dragon, Flip'thelich, and Didinchek'Fortraps.

I shouldn't have to not allow it, and more to the point, everything in Dragon is usable in the RPGA.


At least as far as non-RPGA games are concerned, you don't "have to not allow it" if that's too much effort. You could instead continue to play the game the way you have been playing prior to reading the article or simply pay that section of the article no mind at all. You don't even need to spend the calorie to handwave it away.

I think that's why they didn't put rituals like Overland Flight in the PH and instead release it separately. PCs having access to flight doesn't fit everyone's playstyles. Some like that it allows PCs to bypass stuff and ingore, engage in, and/or have an advantage in certain types of encounters, other hate those aspects. But since it's not core, you are free(er) to ignore it or not at your discretion.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2008 - 4:14AM #8
WolfStar76
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Titanium Dragon wrote:

I shouldn't have to not allow it, and more to the point, everything in Dragon is usable in the RPGA.


EXCEPT for Magic Items and Rituals.

So, unless they give this out as a part of a treasure parcel (thereby granting access) it's no worry for the RPGA.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2008 - 3:55PM #9
Lord_Tirian
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2005
Posts: 524
Well, Cloud Chariot worries me much, much more, despite being a power.

Cheers, LT.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 12, 2008 - 4:43PM #10
Titanium_Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 7,765

Well, Cloud Chariot worries me much, much more, despite being a power.


I'm not as worried about that or airships because they don't allow you to suddenly avoid a combat.

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