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5 years ago ::
Jun 10, 2008 - 11:40AM
#71
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Date Joined:
Nov 29, 2007
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HA That is very very funny, Figuring I Play a lot of the free MMo's And they are Just as good as the P2Ps. I can even give you NAMES! Rappelz, Rohan, 2 Moons, Last chaos, Shadowbane, Requiem, Shiaya Online, and many many more! So just because you pay for it, does NOT make it good. Take Granada Espada for example.... TANKED! So Paying 15 dollars a month? Is it worth it? maybe not. Good graphics nare fun and all, But NOTHING will take the place of a good old fashion mini on a card board Dungeon! TSR for LIFE!
Rappelz and Rohan suck. So does Silk Road, in case anyone wants to mention that one. Haven't tried Shadowbane yet...
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5 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2008 - 5:16AM
#72
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hmmmm... so I live in the UK, i seem to pay somewhere between 2-3GBP for a copy of Dragon or Dungeon or about 12$ per month if I want them both.
So maybe my equation is a little different, but, 3$ a month for online features seems potentially not unreasonable to me, given that my gaming group is scattered over the UK, and I have a new baby daughter that makes gaming weekends more challenging than they once were!
That said, I have no idea if these tools will:
a) really work as described
b) will provide compelling reasons for the fee as a whole.
until we "see them touch them and feel them" we are all talking rubbish.
To paraphrase someone famous "we have already established what you are, now we are only talking about the price..."
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5 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2008 - 5:26AM
#73
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2004
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So maybe my equation is a little different, but, 3$ a month for online features seems potentially not unreasonable to me, given that my gaming group is scattered over the UK, and I have a new baby daughter that makes gaming weekends more challenging than they once were!
But the difference is, you're not getting the print magazines anymore either. Print magazines:
- Cost more to produce and distribute, and are therefore worth more.
- Must be printed out before play, either cheaply in B&W or more expensively in color.
- Cannot be read in the bathroom, on the bus, or anywhere else you read magazines to pass the time (PDF readers, laptop computers, and iPhones notwithstanding).
They are, frankly, inferior to the print product. I wouldn't pay $15 a month for online content alone, PERIOD.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2008 - 5:35AM
#74
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true that does reduce the overhead of distribution and so on. As far as I am aware it's not mandatory to subscribe... Actually I read more electronic format material these days (novels included) than I do print media, an interesting observation on that is the cost of an electronic book from say Sony's ereader store is very similar to the cost of a book from the bookstore.
But the point is still this, until we actually see and use the online tools we have no idea if they will be "valuable" enough to justify the cost (whatever it might be).
If you have a Mac and don't have parallels or BootCamp or just don't want to use the online tools, you are correct then just buy the magazines and don't subscribe to the online content.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2008 - 6:35AM
#75
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2004
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If you have a Mac and don't have parallels or BootCamp or just don't want to use the online tools, you are correct then just buy the magazines and don't subscribe to the online content.
Clearing up some issues here.
[LIST=1]
It's not clear, but it sounds like there will be NO print magazines. Only PDFs.
It is also unclear, but it doesn't sound like there will be a pricing structure that allows access to the online content and not the online tools. It's either $15 a month or nothing.
Parallels won't run these tools, as Shader 2.0 doesn't work in parallels, so it's not just firing up a separate process, it's rebooting entirely out of OSX.
If I can somehow get the online content without paying for the online tools, and that online content is at a reasonable price point ($5-7.50 a month, I'd say, given the inconvenience of the nonprint format), I'd definitely hop on board. I don't actually care about the online tools all that much. Handy, but nothing I can't reproduce on my own. I mean, the biggest draw is the character sheet where all your powers are listed with full text.
I type easily 75 WPM when I'm transcribing something and on a roll. How long would it take me to type around 10 powers into a Word document? An hour? I'd do that once or twice a year (how many new characters do you really use in the tabletop game a year?) or whatever, and spend my game money elsewhere. Like watching Iron Man twice a month at a matinee. :P
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5 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2008 - 7:52AM
#76
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It's not clear
yup i definately agree with you on that... also regarding parallels and shader 2.0, that's a market call though ultimately (in the context of do "i" bother to invest in a multi-platform development or just a single platform development). Until we get the tools we'll never know...
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5 years ago ::
Jun 11, 2008 - 9:59PM
#77
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Date Joined:
Jun 11, 2008
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Wow Wizards you've sunk to a new low.
You can't sell your crap magazine so you try to save a buck by making it digital while at the same time screwing us out of our money? yea sorry thats not how it works. All I want is the tools, you can keep your articales I never gave a crap about and screw your online support. I'll give ya 10 bucks for the tools and be on my way cause thats all it's worth.
It isn't a matter of money, I can spend 15 bucks a month, but I'm not gonna spend 15 bucks a month on crap.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 12:45AM
#78
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Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2008
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From my point of view I have no problem paying $15/month for the online content. In order for me to join a group of mature gamers I would have to drive 60 -70 miles round trip. Factor in the price of gas at about $4/gallon and $15 dollars becomes very reasonable. As for the PDF format I merely scan over most of the content and anything that I find especially interesting or useful I print out and read when/where I can. This I also find appealing from a environmental standpoint since there isn't any wasted paper or ink.
Now let me ask you a question: Would you rather WoC put out one very good to great product once every 2-3 months or 2-3 mediocre to very poor products per month? Economically WoC must sell something on monthly basis in order to stay in business in order to cover wages, overhead, etc. This can be accomplished by shoveling tripe out the door on a monthly basis or having a service with a monthly fee and a quality product every 2-3 months. It basically boils down to a case of quality or quantity and I would rather have quality over quantity. For those who will continue to insist on having something in hand I ask: How is it cheaper to by 2 magazines and a hard-copy product at $20 - $35 even once a month than to spend $15/month for online content and a hardcopy product every 2-3 months?
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5 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 1:32AM
#79
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Date Joined:
Nov 24, 2006
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$15/month is too much - and that's presuming here in the UK we don't get shafted and the typical $1-£1 scam isn't pulled.
I didn't subscribe to Dungeon & Dragon in paper format, I picked and chose my issues - i'm certainly not going to subscribe to issues I'm going to have to use my own ink and paper to print.
The character builder is a fun gimmick, as is the dungeon builder - but I can get both from other companies for a one off price.
Not interested at all in the virtual gaming table stuff - I play pen and paper to meet my frriends - if I want to online game we'll play a proper MMORPG.
And the micro transactions for vminis - that's just hilarious and anyone sad enough to buy into it seriously needs help. Micro transactions are 3 steps below CCGs on the moral scale : here's our product that you're already paying for - now here's 142 other things you'll want to buy (well, buy acces too really -after all you'll not actually "own" anything) to go with it , bet you're hoping is doesn't fold up now you've "bought" all of the bits hunh !
Now don't get me wrong - I'll buy the core books, and some of the modules if they take my fancy. I'll play and support the game - but not to the point where I'll fleeced on line.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 10:35AM
#80
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Date Joined:
Nov 24, 2003
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From my point of view I have no problem paying $15/month for the online content. In order for me to join a group of mature gamers I would have to drive 60 -70 miles round trip. Factor in the price of gas at about $4/gallon and $15 dollars becomes very reasonable. As for the PDF format I merely scan over most of the content and anything that I find especially interesting or useful I print out and read when/where I can. This I also find appealing from a environmental standpoint since there isn't any wasted paper or ink.
Now let me ask you a question: Would you rather WoC put out one very good to great product once every 2-3 months or 2-3 mediocre to very poor products per month? Economically WoC must sell something on monthly basis in order to stay in business in order to cover wages, overhead, etc. This can be accomplished by shoveling tripe out the door on a monthly basis or having a service with a monthly fee and a quality product every 2-3 months. It basically boils down to a case of quality or quantity and I would rather have quality over quantity. For those who will continue to insist on having something in hand I ask: How is it cheaper to by 2 magazines and a hard-copy product at $20 - $35 even once a month than to spend $15/month for online content and a hardcopy product every 2-3 months?
And there is where your premise is flawed... IF I bought those issues every month. But I like many others, who are or consider themselves avid gamers, do NOT buy everything every month. Once in a good year I might have only bought say 8 issues total of BOTH magazines and yet Paizo still made a good profit!
I, among many others on this board, are saying we refuse to RENT content that we don't want or need. Especially content on a server that no matter what, presents a RIPE TARGET for hacking.
Lets look at the cost to them for their DDI
More server space
Programmers on staff full time
More Digital Security
That is what they added on top of what they had. Granted that takes money, but for all of that - I am not going to use it! Not worth the money to me. To me there is NO VALUE.
Now online (PDF) versions of Dungeon, Dragon Magazines... never worth it to me to get one or even both each month so why pay MORE for online versions of those when by all logic, ALL logic, it is cheaper for them to e-publish?
So far the marketing and push (as I have seen) is the added bonuses of, the ONLINE ONLY Char Gen, Mini Gen, etc. All of which I have stated I am not interested in. I AM STILL ON DIAL UP. ONLINE GAMING (whether it is WoW, Everquest, or this DDI char gen stuff) IS TOTALLY USELESS TO ME. IT TAKES TOO LONG TO LOAD ALL THE FLASH STUFF TO BE USEFUL TO ME.
I can however manage to download a few pdfs while I am online, if the content is WORTH it.
GIVE me a STANDALONE program that runs on my system, is under MY control and I would go for it. Programs like Core Rules and E-tools!
So yes I understand that the new content requires people to support it. What I disagree with is charging everyone as if they all will use ALL of the DDI to it's fullest extent. When it is obvious by the posts on this and other message boards here, that not everyone is able to (MAC users) or wants all of that content (people like me who bought the magazines when it struck their fancy and/or had the disposable income at the time.)
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