|
5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 3:23PM
#41
|
Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2005
|
You obviously don't understand the argument
Yay, look, unjustified, wholly unsupported flaming. I understand your argument completely. The entirety of your argument is cost relative to entertainment time gained. That argument has never held water as a justification for cost in the history of economics.
If you can't figure out the difference in an IM application for yourself, then no one can help you.
And no defense for your statements! Just another argumentum ad hominem.
Yeah, it is the same, *in the context of your argument,* because it can be measured in the amount of entertainment time I get out of it for the price, which was the *entirety* of the argument you presented.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 3:40PM
#42
|
Date Joined:
Nov 29, 2007
|
an be measured in the amount of entertainment time I get out of it for the price, which was the *entirety* of the argument you presented.
No, it's not even close to the same in the context of the argument when you look at the differences in what is provided as well as the market alternatives. Think about for a minute or two.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 9:10PM
#43
|
Date Joined:
May 29, 2008
|
There seems to be a few different topics floating around in this thread. My 2 cents:
1. Are the online tools worth $15/month?
Someone else already said it: I don't think we can know until they come out and we try them. I'm not sure there's any other way to know if they'll suit our needs though I plan on monitoring the forums for other people's opinions before signing up.
2. Who needs these tools anyway?
If the tools are workable then I need them if I want to play on a regular basis. I have a full time job, a kid that's young enough that she's more interested in eating the dice then rolling them, a wife that doesn't game, and friends that also don't have time for gaming. This offers a way for me to game.
3. Is $15 a lot of money (regardless of what it's for)?
Does this really have any bearing on anything? Either you can afford it and you're golden or you can't and this thread becomes irrelevant to you.
Thanks for reading! :D
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 11:05PM
#44
|
|
|
2. Who needs these tools anyway?
If the tools are workable then I need them if I want to play on a regular basis. I have a full time job, a kid that's young enough that she's more interested in eating the dice then rolling them, a wife that doesn't game, and friends that also don't have time for gaming. This offers a way for me to game.
This is pretty much exactly the same fer me... if the tools enable me to find people to game with online, then i'll certainly give it a shot , i'll cancel my eq2 sub to play D&D regularly again....
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 11:33PM
#45
|
|
|
Does anyone know all the pricing? I've heard horrible rumors of having to pay extra for miniatures, each player having to pay the subscription as well, etc...
Our group would probably use it (to include friends cross-country and beyond), but we wouldn't be willing to pay any more than $15 a month (for the whole group). $15 a month per player is obscene for something like this. $90 a month for the standard group size + a bunch of random expenditures for extra virtual miniatures? Give me a break, with prices like that, I don't know a single person that will give Wizards a cent. (I do know a couple that would go for the magazine subscriptions, assuming you can get those seperately).
I could see a flat fee for everyone (a disk included in the phb or $10, something of that sort) and then a monthly fee for the server which all the players play on. (perhaps each player having to pay a monthly fee of $2.50 or so for access to the server.)
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 05, 2008 - 6:25AM
#46
|
Date Joined:
Nov 29, 2007
|
Does anyone know all the pricing? I've heard horrible rumors of having to pay extra for miniatures, each player having to pay the subscription as well, etc...
Yeah, apparently you will have to pay extra for some digital miniatures. A monumentally bad idea, if you ask me. I also agree they should have group pricing. The main roadblock to me subscribing will probably be that none of my players subscribe. I might not mind the $15 for DDI as a DM and someone who would like to use the online gaming. Can't blame my players for not subscribing.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 05, 2008 - 6:44AM
#47
|
|
|
I appreciate the idea of moving Dungeon + Dragon magazines online, but I'm going to have to agree with the people that the price point Wizards is trying for goes way past what the services they're offering are worth, compared to the alternatives.
15$/month means you'd better be getting the same value or better compared to buying at least 5 magazines each month (about 3$/issue previously); you're not even getting them in physical copies, which severely limits the places you can read them, your ability to actually bring the things to the gaming table, and the speed you can reference articles at. That means that even if the quality of the articles is the same, the $$$ value is lower since it's less useful to you. Unless you're going to print stuff off (at a cost to yourself, unless you've got a very loose workplace policy). So far, half the "content" they've shown us has been previews (ads) for books they're trying to sell - the rest is barely enough to fill ONE magazine, let alone 5.
Not only that, they're seriously shooting themselves in the foot by getting rid of their presence on actual store shelves that would apeal to casual players. There's a reason that some magazines give away subscriptions as cheaply as possible: the ads inside more than pay for the cost of writing and printing, and having presence on store shelves is like a permanent billboard people will pay money to read. Now, instead, you have to actually seek out their website yourself and pay money to even browse through the articles, something you could do for free in the real world before.
I'd fully understand if they condensed the 2 print magazines into 1; but switching to online-only, and not making those articles (which are mostly ads anyways) available for free is bad for customers, bad for their (long-term) business, and bad for the hobby as a whole.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 05, 2008 - 11:18AM
#48
|
Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2007
|
I've posted on this in detail on what I felt a fair price would be with how's and why's. Thought I'd weigh in again.
$15 a month is RIDICULOUS. This isn't an MMO, and any comparison is foolish, especially from a business standpoint. I think it's a misread of the audience, and depending on how much money they sink into DDI, possibly a huge mistake. For reference material and on-line play of D&D? $5/month. The cheapest you can go with their lously pricing scheme is $10, and then you're stuck with it for a year. I would also bet you'd cought it all up at the beginning of your subscription, as is the norm I believe.
I still think another approach is $2.50 for each mag, and $5 for the on-line portion of the service is acceptable for those who don't want/need the other pieces. Forcing all or nothing is just a money grab.
All that being said, if just the DM needs to pay, that's not such a big deal. I recall mention of this on the boards a short time ago, but can't site the post or it's creator. Thing is, then the DM needs to have everyone pitch in to be fair, or they're stuck with the bill. If that's a plan, why not just charge $2.50 a month for everyone, come out a bit ahead, and throw the players a bone?
The track record of 3e and that nifty character generator has been brought up, and rightly so. I would hope to get a beta when 4e rolls out that hangs around until it's generally stable and doing what was promised. Once that happens, start up with the pay service. From pics of people's books delivered early, they get a 10-day free trial. That would seem to imply it will launch live, though they could decide to beta it for a while and just use the 10-day later. In any case, 10 days? Are you freaking kidding me? Do you think anyone can get a good idea of what the community and experience will be like in 10 days? Stinks to high heaven of more money grubbing. This is NOT an MMO.
Perhaps I misread the demographic. Perhaps enough D&D gamers feel $15/month (or less depending on the length of commitment) is just fine. Perhaps there are people who game enough that this will be worth it. I would suspect those folks are already gaming face to face and don't really have a need for doing so on-line. I would also suspect people who want to get back in touch and resuscitate and old game wouldn't play so much. They might also already have some system in place to do so. An in-house system is quite attractive though, to be honest. It's just not worth $120 up-front or more spread out IMO.
As far as the on-line table-top, I hope it's worth it. I hope there are numerous games to choose from that are easy enough to enter. I hope I can choose an on-going campaign with strangers, or just hope on when I find I have a free night and play. As for the folks I game with, I don't know if they'd be attracted to it. I think of DDI as bonus gaming. Unfortunately I'm then saddled with the extra cost of e-zines I'd rather not pay for. (oops, going negative again) I hope that they continually update the models/art/tiles/objects for use with online adventures. I hope for a way to construct said adventures off-line (OFFLINE, not out of game), that can then be imported to DDI later. I hope for a good wide range of sounds. The offline creation/editing aside, none of that is too crucial to gameplay. It's just what I would expect because of the price to play. Also, since we're already staring at a screen (pulls you out of your imagination a bit), it's hard not to overlook poor eye candy and sounds. Around a table a bunch of black lines on some vinyl works just fine.
So I have high hopes for DDI. I didn't even go into additional content and what not. I'd expect to see plenty on other sites anyways... The problem is, no matter how high my hopes are, I'm not paying what they're asking outside of just a foray to check it out. If it meets all of my hopes, I'd -consider- it though... I could probably only sneak in 2 or 3 games a month, so perhaps I just fall outside of the target demographic.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 05, 2008 - 11:40AM
#49
|
Date Joined:
Jul 27, 2007
|
3. Is $15 a lot of money (regardless of what it's for)?
Does this really have any bearing on anything? Either you can afford it and you're golden or you can't and this thread becomes irrelevant to you.
D
I think the purpose of this quote is to address that issue. I'd bet for most players, $15/mo isn't going to be worth it OR is just outside of their budget. I think that's unfortunate because on-line play would seem to offter a lot of growth for the game. That's good for the game, the players (who are the game, really), and the business (more sales).
*I'm pretty hung up on the on-line gameplay for the same reasons as you, minus the kid. I don't care for reading pdf's unless I HAVE to. I don't read Dragon much, Dungeon at all anyways, but I'd still grab a Dragon now and again if it were in print. That being said, I was enthralled with it back in the late 80's through the early 90's, then again when 3e came out.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 07, 2008 - 9:41AM
#50
|
|
|
For me, its way to much. I have no interest in the digital tools, and only bought Dungeon when it interested me. i had a subscription to Dragon for 12 years though. If I bought the D&DI I would be paying alot more and receiving alot less no matter which pay scheme I went for.
Thank god for Kobold Quarterly.
|
|
|
