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5 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 3:23PM
#11
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THere are 3 paying options 10 a month /year 13 / 3 months 15/ 1 month. And if your going 10 a month you'll paying less than what MOST mmorpgs monthly fees are.
You're also getting less than what ALL mmorpgs are, so of course you should be paying less
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5 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 3:46PM
#12
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Date Joined:
May 21, 2007
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There's not much point in debating whether the $15/month, or $180/year, is a lot of money or not. I don't know anyone over the age of 16 who would think that's a lot of money, but if you do then you have my sympathy.
And people wonder why our society is living paycheck to paycheck. No, $15 isn't a "lot of money" to me, but I also don't drop cash on something just because it's a 'trivial' amount.
The larger issue, as you point out, is whether or not you're getting value for the money. But again, there's not much point in debating that either, since none of us has used DDI yet. Let's both subscribe for a month when it becomes available and then we can decide if the $15 was worth it.
Here's the thing, I don't need to see the tools to know I won't use them. I don't need a digital table top, I game with my friends. I couldn't care less about a 3d representation of my character that looks like a refuge from WoW and for far less than $180 I can pay an artist over the internet to make me a much nicer looking drawing of my character.
I've never subscribed to either Dungeon or Dragon magazine and while I might enjoy an occasional article from them I can get much of that same sort of gratification from other (free) sources on the internet. Incidentally most physical magazine subscriptions are $15-30/ YEAR, and any physical copies of these mags will be additional expenses so I can't even read them on the can if I was interested.
The tools I am interested in are replacing tools which I currently have access to for free which is what is really frustrating.
The character generator and online rules access I currently use PCGen and d20SRD. I am quite happy with both of these tools and wouldn't change them even if the cost difference were free. Unfortunately Wizards closed their ruleset so the only way d20SRD will be replaced is by paying $15/ month which sucks (But that's another topic).
From what I've heard PCGen is on-course to support 4e by the end of the year. Heck, unless the yet-to-be-seen GSL license prohibits it PCGen may very well beat the DDi tools to market.
So WTF am I really getting for $15/ month?? Online rules, maybe a character generator, and some occasional random content from Dungeon or Dragon that might prove interesting.
No thanks, I can think of a lot better things to do with the money.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 3:48PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 20, 2007
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There's not much point in debating whether the $15/month, or $180/year, is a lot of money or not. I don't know anyone over the age of 16 who would think that's a lot of money, but if you do then you have my sympathy.
Its depend on your revenue...if you have kids and if you think that 15$ a month for a service of that kind is too much...you are right. I think that 15$ a month is too much compared to a MMORPG. Because in a MMO, you can play with 15$ a month. But with DnD Online table, you need players and a DM...so you pay for...server occupation and a software...why just dont sell the software and ask people to create their own local server...ok Im studying in Multimedia...so its sounds simple to me..but it is..for real.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2008 - 8:20PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2008
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And 15 bucks a month? Who would complain about such a trivial amount of money?
People with a small disposable income? Already D&D has cut into my comic habit quite a bit (and I was only spending $60 on comics a month).
I can barely buy lunch for that.
Clearly you have more expensive tastes then I. I can go out for dinner and get it for less then $10.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 6:34AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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A big question for most people's spending on anything is (regardless of how much money one has) is "can I get something better for the same amount of money that I am spending on x?".
In this case, that question translates to: can I get a better roleplaying product that fills the same (or a very similar) niche for $15 per month that is better than insider?
The answer is: of course!!!
**For the MMO crowd, WoW is a much better value.
**For the strictly D&D crowd who wants to play online...there's that free online roleplaying game.
**For the strictly D&D crowd who wants to read pdf's there's a ton on drivethrurpg.com for way cheaper (and those are already available, not the junk we've been getting from WoTC).
**For the strictly D&D crowd who wants to read real life, actual paper, books, you could buy a book every other month for that cost...and better than that if you go amazon or get it used.... I mean $180 per year? Seriously, go on amazon right now and look for new or used books...see what you can buy... (Yes I'm aware that RIGHT NOW there aren't 4e books apart from WotC, but that will very quickly change...and also RIGHT NOW insider is remaining free.) Even new, most books are $30...so that is half of a full book per month.
I can certainly find books that cost $15 each (including shipping) that are worth reading, having, playing, overall enjoying...
So, again, the question becomes one of value...for me, there is no way I'd rather spend $15 to get:
1. Something I can get for free elsewhere.
2. Web based (non pdf...as they haven't compiled anything but the first
mag) low amount of content adventures and articles.
I'd rather get an additional book every single month with that money.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 7:59AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2007
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There's not much point in debating whether the $15/month, or $180/year, is a lot of money or not. I don't know anyone over the age of 16 who would think that's a lot of money, but if you do then you have my sympathy.
It's not a lot of money on its own.. but it is a lot of money for what you're getting. It's the relative value of things. For me, $15 a month COULD go to DDI, or it COULD go to one of my girls for a toy they want, or a CD, a few in print magazines per month.
The larger issue, as you point out, is whether or not you're getting value for the money. But again, there's not much point in debating that either, since none of us has used DDI yet. Let's both subscribe for a month when it becomes available and then we can decide if the $15 was worth it.
And that's mindbogglingly stupid. You're seriously demanding that people pay money first to see if it was worth paying money for in the first place?
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5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 9:19AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2005
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LMAO 15 bucks is ridiculous !! :hoppingma There´s only one MMORPG that´s 15$ a month and thats AoC ALL others charge 10 to 0. And people this is NO game !!  It´s a tool, a bunch of info and maybe somehow useful. BUT NOT WORTH FIVE DOLLARS A MONTH (DEFINITELY NOT 15  )  Even if WotC would create the PERFECT toolset (which i strongly doubt) it´s not worth a monthly fee. I´d spend some money for a real good tool once.   Applause WotC you once more showed you only care about $$$  The only other thing left to say ( and thats a pure personal impression) 3.5 worked, and 4.0 is for sissies  So bye bye and NOT BUY BUY 
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5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 9:57AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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I just checked amazon.com under magazine subscriptions. So if we assume that insider (which doesn't yet exist) is about as useful (perhaps a bit "shinier") as the free programs out there, then we're just paying WotC for magazines. If this is the case, lets look at what we can get at amazon for subscription price. (Now I want to compare apples to apples, but I can't since WotC is putting out crappy pdfs and not print...but I can at least do subscription price to subscription price...so WotC subscription price is $120 per year for the two mags, or $60 per year for each of the pdf mags or $5 per mag). Looking at the most popular print magazines for one year we get: Spoiler:
Show
Smithsonian - 12 issues / 12 months $12.00 ($1.00/issue)
Newsweek - 53 issues / 12 months $20.00 ($0.38/issue)
Wired - 12 issues / 12 months $10.00 ($0.83/issue)
Popular Science - 12 issues / 12 months $12.00 ($1.00/issue)
O, The Oprah Magazine (1-year) - 12 issues / 12 months$18.00 ($1.50/issue)
The New Yorker - 47 issues / 12 months $39.95 ($0.85/issue)
Playboy - 12 issues / 12 months $15.96 ($1.33/issue)
Us Weekly - 52 issues / 12 months $51.48 ($0.99/issue)
Maxim - 12 issues / 12 months $12.00 ($1.00/issue)
Sports Illustrated Kids (1-year) - 12 issues / 12 months $19.95 ($1.66/issue)
Vanity Fair - 12 issues / 12 months $15.00 ($1.25/issue) If you drop the three most expensive (The New Yorker, US Weekly, and Sports Illustrated Kids) you could have: Smithsonian, Newsweek, Wired, Popular Science, O, Playboy, Maxim, and Vanity Fair for a total of $114.96 delivered to your door, in print. Yes, act now, and you'll get (for the mere cost of a subscription to insider) subscriptions of 8 of the 11 most popular magazines, in print, delivered to your door. That's not the 24 supposed issues of dungeon and dragon. That is 137 magazine issues!!!Spoiler:
Show
(I also feel compelled to point out that two of the dropped magazines, both The New Yorker and US weekly, are basically weekly magazines, with a subscription equalling 47 and 52 issues, respectively) Including all of these magazines and averaging the subscription cost per issue yields $0.91 per issue. That is less than 20% of the cost of an electronic issue of Dungeon or Dragon. Spoiler:
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BUT WAIT! Someone might say. Dungeon and Dragon are niche products. Don't compare them to the most popular magazines in the country!
Ok, how about comparing them to the entertianment---> puzzles and games section?
Again, sorted by best selling:
Spoiler:
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Family Handyman - 10 issues / 12 months $19.97 ($2.00/issue)
Game Informer - 12 issues / 12 months $19.98 ($1.67/issue)
PlayStation: The Official Magazine - 12 issues / 12 months $18.00 ($1.50/issue)
The Official Xbox Magazine - 12 issues / 12 months $24.95 ($2.08/issue)
Fine Woodworking - 7 issues / 12 months $34.95 ($4.99/issue)
Games - 10 issues / 12 months $30.00 ($3.00/issue)
Electronic Gaming Monthly - 12 issues / 12 months $19.97 ($1.66/issue)
Jumbo Ring-a-Word - 6 issues / 12 months $9.80 ($1.63/issue)
Card Player - 26 issues / 12 months $25.95 ($1.00/issue)
Play - 12 issues / 12 months $17.95 ($1.50/issue)
Official's Logic Problems - 6 issues / 12 months $19.40 ($3.23/issue)
World of Puzzles - 6 issues / 12 months $19.40 ($3.23/issue)
Including all of these, the average cost per issue is $1.99. That is still less than half of the cost of a pdf issue of Dungeon or Dragon.
For the "niche" products, I had to drop 6 magazines (half) to get down below the total cost of both dungeon and dragon. So for $105.67 (actuall $14.33 below cost) you could get Family Handyman, Game Informer, Playstation:The official Magazine, Electronic Gaming Monthly, Jumbo ring a word, and Play. That is a total of 64 print issues of 6 magazines compared to 24 PDF issues (and for less money). And Finally, if we really want to compare Dungeons to e-Dungeons and Dragons to e-Dragons: The cost of the print magazines when Paizo sold them for subscription was $3.25 per magazine. For both was $6.50. So now we have to pay $3.50 more (remember the cost per mag was only $3.25) to get them than we used to, and in PDF???? Here is an old post on this same topic:
$10-15 per month is a wildly absurd amount.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 10:17AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2006
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And that's mindbogglingly stupid. You're seriously demanding that people pay money first to see if it was worth paying money for in the first place?
Whoa -- mindbogglingly? Demanding? Let's reign ourselves in a bit here. I demanded that no one do anything. I suggested that people try the product before they slam it. Would you go on a message board talking about how terrible a restaurant is that you've never eaten at? How awful a book is that you've never read? How ghastly a movie was that you didn't watch?
Buy it or don't buy it, but please hold off on the rhetoric if you think it's wrong for someone to suggest being open-minded.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 10:28AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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I would go on a message board and complain about a restaurant that handed out free samples that were a "preview" of their restaurant and those free samples were:
1. of poor quality
2. promised and then never supplied
3. supplied months late
4. promised in larger volumes than were supplied.
"Here's that hamburger sample I promised you two months ago. Yeah, it's raw, and it's moldy, but come on inside and pay for the real thing. IT'S GONNA BE GREAT!!!!"
Seriously. We've been previewing this thing since October.
Isn't 9 months enough of a preview to begin to make judgement calls?
And preview or no, I believe my prior post points out that the price is extreme even if the magazines were good enough to be the tops in the country. (but they're no where near that).
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