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Shaman Question: Healing Guides
1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2009 - 7:16AM #1
Thaos52002
Posts: 67
Date Joined: 11/16/07
I originally posted the below question here: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.ph … st18185493

It was suggested that I put it over here as well as all three of my proposed interpretations have come back from responses. I would love to get some kind of official ruling on this as I have a player using this PP in my group.

How are people interpreting the Healing Guides ability under the Spirit Tempest PP?

"When you restore hit points with your healing spirit power, any ally adjacent to or within a conjuration or zone that you created with a shaman power or a shaman paragon path power also regains hit points as if he or she were adjacent to your spirit companion."

This just seems like a mess to me. An ally adjacent to your spirit companion only regains hit points if it is the ally you choose to regain hit points, they don't always get it (though this statement almost makes it sound like they do always get it). Then I was wondering if it meant all allies or just one ally. It seems they should have said "any ally or allies" if they wanted it to be more than one.

When we first read this we though it just let you pick an ally within the zone as the target for the bonus healing but it does say "also regains hit points" so then i figured we had done that wrong.

What are your thoughts?
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2009 - 12:02PM #2
SnakeInMyPocket
Posts: 6
Date Joined: 03/27/09
Ok, first I notice the use of the phrase "Any ally". SO the targets are now potentially multiple allies. The condition of those targets are described as "adjacent to or within", so now there is a possibility of two conditions that the ally can meet.

So now we are left asking, "ok, bozo, what do they need to be adjacent to or in?" Well, that is answered promptly as two possiblities, "conjuration or zone that you created with a shaman power or a shaman paragon path power".

So, we have our conjurations (aka spirits) and our zones as things they need to be within or adjacent to.


Now, when using healing spirits, there is stil the primary heal, which is the healing surge value heal. That stays unchanged. AS for the secondary heal, it now applies to the original condition and target, and what you quoted in your post. Potentially, the xd6 heal could apply to your entire group, if you have enough zones and spirit conjurations down to allow all your allies to meet the conditions described.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2009 - 12:12PM #3
Thaos52002
Posts: 67
Date Joined: 11/16/07
That is, it seems, the most common interpretation. However it has not been the only interpretation.

On my blog Jim makes a good point about "What happens when the original target (the one that spent the surge) is within a zone?".

I am thinking that several allies can get healed but that no ally can ever get healed more than once. Unless I hear some great argument to the contrary (or something official) I will probably go with this.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2009 - 12:19PM #4
SnakeInMyPocket
Posts: 6
Date Joined: 03/27/09
Ok, you bring up a good point about the one spending the healing surge. Here the line that I think is key to this.


"also regains hit points as if he or she were adjacent to your spirit companion."

This line sound to me that the additional xd6 HPs would add to everyone that meets the conditions described, that have not gotten the xd6 HPs yet. I would say, as long as the inital target meets the conditions described, they would also get the xd6, making their total HPs regained to be surge value + xd6.


Edit: I'm wrong on the initial target. Healing spirit says "If the target does so, one ally adjacent to your spirit companion, other than the target, regains 1d6 hit points." It specifically excludes the inital target, and the path power does not remove that exclusion.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2009 - 8:56PM #5
Thaos52002
Posts: 67
Date Joined: 11/16/07
I'm far more comfortable with the initial target not being included. As I already said, I don't feel it is in flavor.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 27, 2009 - 9:48PM #6
Wonkasrevenge
Posts: 19
Date Joined: 01/20/09
Man, I would love to get an official word from a developer on this.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 29, 2009 - 10:53AM #7
SmCaudata
Posts: 277
Date Joined: 03/13/08
Seems quite obvious from all of this discussion. I think the only thing missing is the word "respectively" when saying within a zone or adjacent to a conjuration. As written in your quote above you can be adjacent to the zone to receive benefit, which does not seem to be the intent. I could be wrong here, but that is the only issue that I can find with the wording as it is now.

So assuming this applies to people within a zone or adjacent to a conjuration, every ally that meets that criteria that was not the original target gets the secondary benefit. The "other than the target" restriction was not removed and there is no explicit limit to the number of allies this can apply to.
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 30, 2009 - 6:47AM #8
Thaos52002
Posts: 67
Date Joined: 11/16/07
It was mentioned on the original posting that the spirit companion is a conjuration. If this is true (I'm not certain if it does count as one or not) then this power as we have been interpreting it is a bit broken since all allies adjacent to the spirit companion would get the extra dice. That could be a lot of healing and would not require any additional powers to be used (like dropping a zone).
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1 year ago  ::  Mar 31, 2009 - 1:20PM #9
quishadi
Posts: 230
Date Joined: 10/20/08
The healing spirits class feature states that the shaman chooses one ally adjacent to her spirit companion to receive the extra healing. Healing Guides says that from now on, when the shaman triggers a healing surge, all allies that are adjacent to her conjurations and within her zones regain hit points as if they were adjacent to her spirit companion. I don't see where it increases the number of allies that will receive the extra healing --- so I think it's still just one. What it does is make it easier to place the extra healing where the shaman wants, and also, if she is a protecting shaman, to add her CON bonus when she provides healing.
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1 year ago  ::  Apr 03, 2009 - 4:30AM #10
SnakeInMyPocket
Posts: 6
Date Joined: 03/27/09

quishadi wrote:

The healing spirits class feature states that the shaman chooses one ally adjacent to her spirit companion to receive the extra healing. Healing Guides says that from now on, when the shaman triggers a healing surge, all allies that are adjacent to her conjurations and within her zones regain hit points as if they were adjacent to her spirit companion. I don't see where it increases the number of allies that will receive the extra healing --- so I think it's still just one. What it does is make it easier to place the extra healing where the shaman wants, and also, if she is a protecting shaman, to add her CON bonus when she provides healing.


I have to disagree here. THe way it is written is that "any ally" "also" regains hit points. The use of "also" implies multiple targets gaining the benefits.

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