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4 years ago ::
Dec 10, 2008 - 2:58PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2005
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Or every three turns:
First turn, archer gets a free shot: M = Monster, A=Ally, R=Ranger
___[A]
[M]
[R]
So the second turn, the ally can't shift anywhere that would make the monster move closer to the ranger. The Ally would need to shift atleast 3 squares towards the ranger to give the ranger a free shot (which might miss anyway).
No. Why? Because the next round, the setup is:
___[A]_____[R]
[M]
The ranger simply moves. Now the ally shifts back towards the ranger. Rinse, repeat.
You will get at least one free extra ranged basic attack every turn against any sort of melee monster.
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4 years ago ::
Dec 10, 2008 - 5:58PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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How about a different approach. The stance ends if the pc takes a move action.
Why? This prevents the character (and the whole battle line) from moving back and using this power ad-nauseum. It's still powerful, but it's not as abusable.
If the character has some other power that allows him to shift, fine, but then he's using two powers to extend this one, which is a whole other kettle of fish.
I like the flavour of this power, i'd rather not have to go with the immediate interrupt solution -that totally changes the intent of this power.
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4 years ago ::
Dec 10, 2008 - 10:07PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Sep 13, 2001
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There are some stances that applies the slowed condition to the player. Would it help balance it if the ranger were slowed while using this stance?
<\
\>tuntman
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4 years ago ::
Dec 11, 2008 - 12:46AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Mar 20, 2001
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I like the flavour of this power, i'd rather not have to go with the immediate interrupt solution -that totally changes the intent of this power.
In which case I'd move the power until it was at least somewhere in Paragon Tier.
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4 years ago ::
Dec 11, 2008 - 6:28AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Mar 20, 2001
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There are some stances that applies the slowed condition to the player. Would it help balance it if the ranger were slowed while using this stance?
Nope because he only needs to move back one square, if they could not move at all that might work.
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4 years ago ::
Dec 12, 2008 - 3:07PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2008
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Oooh, second time in a day I agree to an errata (I must be sick :p). I agree it should change in any of the fashion described above (personally I like the suggestion to have it work until the ranger moves) another option could be to have it work until he is hit (thus encouraging the monsters to hit him, a drawback). I'm against changing it's level though (don't want to see too much red ink in on my MP). Also they could just add a mechanic somewhat similar to the Paladin's divine challenge.
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4 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2008 - 2:43PM
#47
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I don't agree that Spitting Cobra Stance should be changed in any way. It's easy to complain about a lot of powers, but that doesn't mean everything should be changed.
- The Ranger can't be in any other stance while in Spitting Cobra, so there is an opportunity cost involved
- It has a very limited range
- It triggers opportunity attacks from adjacent enemies unless the Ranger blows his precious armor slot on one very specific armor type [Shimmering] that offers no dailies, comes only in Cloth, starts at level 4 making it more expensive than other armors that start their lives at lower levels and is otherwise inferior to countless other outstanding armor choices in just about every respect
- It can be beaten by enemies who start outside 5 squares and teleport in
- It doesn't trigger off of forced movements (PHB p.285 Forced movement does not provoke opportunity attacks or other opportunity actions)
- It doesn't trigger if the Ranger is himself pulled closer to an enemy or moves in any way for that matter
- It must be cast on the Ranger's turn
- It does not benefit from any feats or other powers that give bonuses to opportunity attacks
- It is far inferior for burst damage than pretty much any other Ranger level 5 power
- And it's a daily to boot.
It's a good power but so what - that's what makes the game fun. If people want to complain about something, get orb wizard perma lockdown errata'd or whatever else, but this one should be left alone.
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4 years ago ::
Dec 13, 2008 - 3:12PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Nov 18, 2008
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Good points, maybe I was sick yesterday, I'll need to think this tru, I'm back on the undecided side,
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4 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2008 - 12:20AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2005
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The Ranger can't be in any other stance while in Spitting Cobra, so there is an opportunity cost involved
Irrelevant. Why? Well, first off, lack of ranged stances. Second, opportunity cost isn't power cost.
Thirdly, it doesn't matter because it is so strong you aren't going to waste another daily.
So bad argument.
It has a very limited range
Irrelevant for the reasons pointed out above. Please read the thread before responding. 5 squares is more than sufficient to be broken. It'd take an extremely small area to be fair; 5 squares isn't it. Its trivial to get tons of free attacks against melee monsters, and if they don't approach, then, as pointed out above, they're stunning themselves and you're getting tons of free attacks effectiely.
It triggers opportunity attacks from adjacent enemies unless the Ranger blows his precious armor slot on one very specific armor type [Shimmering] that offers no dailies, comes only in Cloth, starts at level 4 making it more expensive than other armors that start their lives at lower levels and is otherwise inferior to countless other outstanding armor choices in just about every respect
I have already explained why this is irrelevant. You can easily put yourself in a protected, difficult to get to position, you will ALWAYS get one free attack, and being a ranger you have IAs which protect you from such things.
It can be beaten by enemies who start outside 5 squares and teleport in
Very irrelevant. Few monsters have teleport, and some which do lack sufficient teleportation.
It doesn't trigger off of forced movements (PHB p.285 Forced movement does not provoke opportunity attacks or other opportunity actions)
Irrelevant and immaterial. No one has even claimed this as being a reason why this would be problematic. Bringing this up is a straw man.
Also, forced movement combos well with it anyway, as you can push foes backwards, thus forcing them to move in to attack again, thus triggering the attacks on their own turn without requiring the PCs to retreat every turn.
It doesn't trigger if the Ranger is himself pulled closer to an enemy or moves in any way for that matter
Astoundingly irrelevant. The number of monsters which can do this from range is trivially small.
It must be cast on the Ranger's turn
Irrelevant. Its still too powerful and is only a minor action.
It does not benefit from any feats or other powers that give bonuses to opportunity attacks
Irrelevant. Its still too powerful. THe fact that it isn't an OA means fighters cannot freeze people with it, but it doesn't matter as it still gives out far too many attacks.
It is far inferior for burst damage than pretty much any other Ranger level 5 power
Other than the part where it isn't, and it grants you what amounts to an extra basic attack as a minor action against every melee creature fighting you, every round.
And it's a daily to boot.
And it is far, far, far too powerful for a daily of its level, being massively stronger than comparable dailies. Note the comparison with the level 25 ranger daily earlier in this thread.
So in conclusion, your counterarguments reveal that you didn't read this thread. It is very overpowered, and your counterarguments do not address the actual problems with the power.
If you do not read the thread, then your post is likely to be irrelevant.
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4 years ago ::
Dec 14, 2008 - 1:04AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Dec 18, 2004
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I like this power and I would like to see it remain as it is. No, I'm not playing a ranger. First it's daily ... so it is supposed to be strong, second you only get an OA if monsters walk TOWARD the ranger not just by staying somewhere. (and consider: Forced movement by e.g. the Fighter doesn't trigger that power)
Nobody says every monster should charge the ranger. Which DM lets his monster charge a ranged ranger anyway!? The ranger will always outmaneuver them, with or without that power. With it the ranger finally has a way to punish those enemies. It's like marking with a Fighter, which DM lets monster move around the Fighter? Come on ...
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