Community

 
Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 2 of 22  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 22 Next
Switch to Forum Live View The Wizard Handbook II: Electric Boogaloo
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 11:48AM #11
Kolatcrab
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2008
Posts: 122

Mithrus wrote:

I think you are completely wrong in your evaluation of the illusion-centric build. Granted, it is situational in that gnomes make the build shine, but other races are solid picks also. I think it deserves a much higher rating, some color blue for sure. Same goes for gnomes. Take a look at the racial feats if you need more proof they should be a blue color.


I think gnomes should be pretty high all the way around, blue for wizards and sky blue for an illusion build. Arcane Power shot gnome wizard viability into the stratosphere. Their racial feat Gnome Phantasmist gives +1/+2/+3 to hit and damage for illusions that stacks with Implement Expertise for +6 to hit illusions at epic tier.

When the highest-level illusion spells are Dominating spells, that's significant.

The +CHA bonus means that even if the gnome doesn't go the illusion route, he never has to touch CHA to qualify for Spell Focus. The +2 Arcana also can't be denied, particuarly for those who wish to select the Sage of Ages epic destiny.

The Orb of Deception is pretty weak, however. It does get a lot better, however, at paragon tier with the Improved Orb of Deception feat.

[THREAD="1183465"]Gnome Illusionst Builds[/THREAD]

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 12:02PM #12
RossGarner
Date Joined: Apr 28, 2009
Posts: 107

Mithrus wrote:

I think you are completely wrong in your evaluation of the illusion-centric build. Granted, it is situational in that gnomes make the build shine, but other races are solid picks also. I think it deserves a much higher rating, some color blue for sure. Same goes for gnomes. Take a look at the racial feats if you need more proof they should be a blue color.


I think I would have to chime in on your analysis of Genasi / Elemental Empowerment builds. A wizard can quite easily become an effective striker / with some controller powers, if they take the correct feats from Arcane Power.

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 12:21PM #13
Chimaera2000
Date Joined: Jul 7, 2003
Posts: 191
I'll cover the racial feats. I'll have it posted by mid next-week at the latest.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 12:46PM #14
Klivian
Date Joined: Jul 15, 2008
Posts: 178
General feats have been posted, let the Expanded Spellbook debate begin

My apologies to the Gnome folks, their rating will be addressed in due time
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 12:50PM #15
JLaurHughes
Date Joined: Mar 12, 2005
Posts: 769
What about races covered by Dragon Magazine - Shadar-kai, Warforged, Minotaur for example? This is a good thread for those who like Optimizing, however that doesn't mean that a player can't play to a concept instead of simply optimizing.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 2:21PM #16
GelatinousOctahedron
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 5,740
For Orbmaster’s Incendiary Detonation, is it the effect (the zone) or the entire area of the power that is expanded?

I hope the expanded spellbook debate does not get restarted here.

I also think gnomes need to be sky blue. The illusionist build is extremely good.

And the orb of deception is a good choice for an illusionist since you probably have a decent charisma if you are a gnome and you only have to invest in one type of implement if you use the orb of imposition as well. You can use the same orb for both masteries. And if you want the epic level feat where you daze on a crit then you will want a high charisma as well. With divine oracle, the improved crit feat,and the dazing feat you are going to be dazing your enemies around 19% of the time.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 2:34PM #17
KirinDave
Date Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 239
Really. People still believe DEX-using wand wizards have major defense penalties? People still really believe that? When it's trivial to fire up the character builder and see how easy it is to have competitive defenses?

We're still going with that, eh?
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 2:44PM #18
GelatinousOctahedron
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 5,740

KirinDave wrote:

Really. People still believe DEX-using wand wizards have major defense penalties? People still really believe that? When it's trivial to fire up the character builder and see how easy it is to have competitive defenses?

We're still going with that, eh?


I think that with the new spells in AP that trigger off using a wand it is a perfectly fine choice, especially for races that get a bonus to dex. I would probably keep dex as my third highest stat if went with wand. You get to apply the bonus after the DM says whether or not the attack hit and that makes it definitely useful almost every encounter.

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 3:14PM #19
LuciousLeet
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 251

Klivian wrote:

Strength – completely useless to a wizard, only thing you have to use it for is how much you can carry. If you get close to that limit, have the Fighter carry some for you, or get a bag of holding. Put it at 8 and forget about it


I agree in general, but a Staff Wizard would be tempted to get a STR 13 for Armor Proficiency (Hide) and Shield Proficiency (Light).
The Staff Wizard can have better AC (not to mention NADs) than a typical defender

+1 on the Gnome bump to blue (sky blue for illusionist build)

Also about Phantom Chasm, I guess you are correct since PHB pg 277 says

IMMOBILIZED
✦ You can’t move from your space, although you can
teleport and can be forced to move by a pull, a push,
or a slide.

Standing up from prone doesn't require that you move from your space (square).
However, I would house rule that immobilize=no move actions at all, I find the "from your space" part rubbish

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  May 06, 2009 - 3:17PM #20
Lesp
Date Joined: May 5, 2009
Posts: 2,310
First off, I want to say that I think this guide is something sorely needed, and you're noble man (woman?) for taking it on. Here's my thoughts:

On Gnomes: I really have a hard time considering any race with an Int bonus to be worse than black. Hitting is just really important for controllers. Small is a pretty trivial penalty for wizards. So you can't use your staff as a melee weapon, but you'd never hit with it to begin with; the number of situations where using your staff as a melee weapon is a good idea at all is generally irrelevantly small. Fade Away is not at all useless for Wizards; while it's fair to assume that your wizard is not too likely to get smacked as often as most characters, being able to fade away when he is is exceptionally valuable. (Certainly way, way more valuable than being able to smack people with your staff will ever be.)

Gnomes have the perfect stat bumps for illusionists, and also make exceptional wizards of any kind just for their int boost (certainly better than either of the shifters, for instance.) Gnome Phasmatist is such a good feat that even if gnomes had no other beneficial traits whatsoever, they'd still be at least blue for illusionist on the strength of that feat alone. Similarly, even if gnomes had no other traits besides +2 Int, that would make them at least black, bordering on blue for any wizard. You mention that starting with less than 18 int is rarely desirable, and that's true, but any race that doesn't get an int boost will be sinking its other stats into the toilet to get that, and Gnomes don't have to. If a Dwarf or Elf buys an 18 in int and wants a 16 in their secondary stat (let's say it's Wis), thier other stats are going to look something like 13/10/10/8, where the 13 is their other racial boost. If a gnome wants 18 in int and 16 in a secondary stat - Cha, maybe - their other stats look like 14/13/10/8. Even if they want Con as their secondary stat, they can get 18 int/16 con and have 14 Cha/12/10/8 for their other stats. Heck, even if they're going Wis - which diminishes the value of their cha boost - they can still get 18 int/16 Wis and then 12/12/10/10 or 13/11/10/10, if they're dumping Cha. Even with the secondary stat that synergizes the least with them - Wis - gnomes still look pretty nice compared to Elves and Dwarves in the stat department. (The elven racial power is very nice, but dex is just a +1 initiative for a Wis Wizard, and for anything that's not a Wis Wizard, Gnomes clearly have a significant stat advantage since they don't have to pay for an 18. (Eladrin are also much better than elves and dwarves for the same reason.)

As it is, gnomes are blue or maybe even sky blue for any wizard, and are clearly far and away the best choice for illusionist (possibly barring weird combos, but just playing things straight, gnomes are hands-down the best illusionists.)

----------

Right now, the guide and ratings seem a bit slanted toward orbizards. I can't and won't deny that orbizards do some sick things, but rating things based on their value for an orbizard seems less useful than rating them based on their value for a wizard built to take advantage of them. Obviously Tome of Binding is useless or near it for many wizards; it should be judged on what it brings to the sort of wizard who would bother to take it: a dedicated summoner wizard. Now, it may be the case that the feature is a trap and that summoner wizards are often better off with some other feature (similar to how archery rangers can often benefit more from having a beast than from the class feature for archery), or it may be the case that dedicated summoner wizards are just totally unworkable for some reason. If these are the reasons that Tome of Binding scores a poor rating, it should be noted; calling out something as subpar because it doesn't do anything for characters that aren't built to use it seems less helpful. I'm not saying that ToB is necessarily an awesome feature; it might legitimately be poor, especially at low levels where you're not getting much out of it with it affecting so few of your powers, to the extend that even a dedicated summoner wizard would be better off with something else; I just believe that it's more useful to judge things based on their value to characters that might consider taking them.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.

"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 2 of 22  •  Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 ... 22 Next
Jump Menu:
 
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing