|
4 years ago ::
May 20, 2009 - 7:20PM
#431
|
Date Joined:
Jul 19, 2004
|
No it would not.
PH2 p204
"Some classes can use certain magic weapons as implements. If you are able to wield a magic weapon as an implement and use an implement power through it,..."
Swordmages, sorcerers, and monks have class features that allow them to use certain weapons as implements. Only the monk can use a weapon enchanted staff as an implement.
I think you have the most messed up view of how things work in the game of anyone I have seen posting on these boards. Your ability to ignore what the books say is astounding, you sir have a true gift!
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 20, 2009 - 9:41PM
#432
|
|
|
Heh, I'm about ready to second what deathmaster said, but let's give this one more try.
No it would not.
PH2 p204
"Some classes can use certain magic weapons as implements. If you are able to wield a magic weapon as an implement and use an implement power through it,..."
Alright, now look at that second sentance: "If you are able to wield a magic weapon as an implement and use an implement power through it,..."
Now, let's just substitute some specific examples: "If you are able to wield a magic quarterstaff as a staff implement and use an implement power through it,..."
Compare that to what Suoitidure said: "If you can, in fact, wield a magical quarterstaff as a staff implement, then it would fall under the rules in PH2." What's confusing the hell out everyone is you seem to be saying you can "wield a magic quarterstaff as a staff implement and use an implement power through it" but that despite being nearly indentical to the first half of the sentance, the second half doesn't apply.
The rules about Implement Mastery make it crystal clear that you need an implement in order for it to work.
I'd agree that's a pretty safe assumption. The thing is due to the weird way things are written that means at least some magical quarterstaffs must be usable as implements. After all, when an enchanted staff isn't being used with an implement power it's "simply a magic quarterstaff", so if being a magic weapon keeps it from being an implement you can't use staff of defense with enchanted staff implements.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 20, 2009 - 11:07PM
#433
|
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
|
Heh, I'm about ready to second what deathmaster said, but let's give this one more try.
Alright, now look at that second sentance: "If you are able to wield a magic weapon as an implement and use an implement power through it,..."
Now, let's just substitute some specific examples: "If you are able to wield a magic quarterstaff as a staff implement and use an implement power through it,..."
Compare that to what Suoitidure said: "If you can, in fact, wield a magical quarterstaff as a staff implement, then it would fall under the rules in PH2." What's confusing the hell out everyone is you seem to be saying you can "wield a magic quarterstaff as a staff implement and use an implement power through it" but that despite being nearly indentical to the first half of the sentance, the second half doesn't apply.
I'd agree that's a pretty safe assumption. The thing is due to the weird way things are written that means at least some magical quarterstaffs must be usable as implements. After all, when an enchanted staff isn't being used with an implement power it's "simply a magic quarterstaff", so if being a magic weapon keeps it from being an implement you can't use staff of defense with enchanted staff implements.
The second sentence follows the first. Some classes (Only the classes that state they can use weapons as implements i.e. swordmage, sorcerer, and monk.) can use certain magic weapons (Light blades or heavy blades for swordmages, daggers for sorcerers, monk weapons for monks.) as implements. If you're able to wield a magic weapon as an implement (Swordmage, sorcerer, or monk.) and use an implement power through it, you add ...
PH2 204 is not a specific rule overriding the general. It just clarifies on how to apply the enhancement bonus of enchanted weapons for those classes that have class features allowing weapons to be used as implements.
Even the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat does not allow you to use the weapon enchantment on a staff for implement powers. The monk is not an arcane class.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 1:18AM
#434
|
|
|
Isn't that why you support the CS point of view?
(1) probably yes
(2) when conserning, rules as intented, I always follow CS (and when CS contrdicts itself, I take the most recent
As I said, these guys get payed by WotC to answer our problems. saying
Actually being on the development team should grant more insight than a person real familiar with the rules. How often do CS contradict each other?
That is actually wrong. I myself work in as software developer R&D department, and I have no clue about the finer things of other projects. Heck, I don't even know what the hardware department is doing ...
Heck, there has been times where my job was writing the UI for a product that I didn't knew how it worked (I knew what it did, and the names of the sub-components, but I didn't know - nor did I need to know - what those sub-components did.)
Our Quallity Assurence team (the testers), and Customer service, are much more knowledgable about things I don't spend time on then me.
As far as mundane staffs are concerned, does it really matter much either way? Both interpretations have very limited consequences on game play. What does matter is the type of enchantment on the staff. That point we agree on.
I think we agree on both parts
(1) mundain staffs, who gives a duck?
(2) weapon enchantments count for weapons, implement enchantments count for implements (and partially for weapons)
Qube's block builder: if you want to create blocks for powers, items and monsters for this forum, but don't know html "Signature in a box"
Show
For years, I've lived a double life. In the day, I do my job - I ride the bus, roll up my sleeves with the hoi-polloi. But at night, I live a life of exhilaration, of missed heartbeats and adrenalin. And, if the truth be known a life of dubious virtue. I won't deny it - I've been engaged in violence, even indulged in it. I've maimed and killed adversaries, and not merely in self-defence. I've exhibited disregard for life, limb and property, and savoured every moment. You may not think it, to look of me but I have commanded armies, and conquered worlds. And though in achieving these things I've set morality aside, I have no regrets. For though I've led a double life, at least I can say - I've lived.
D&D Home Page - What Monster Are You? - Stone Gaint
Scipio: And Chihuahuas have definitely improved in the "attacking ankles, yapping, and being generally annoying" environment.
Me: OK, am I the only who sees an analogy between forum trolls & Chihuahuas?
"Some of my work:"
Show
"My ego in a box"
Show
who am I kidding? my ego would never fit in a box
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 6:11AM
#435
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
|
The second sentence follows the first. Some classes (Only the classes that state they can use weapons as implements i.e. swordmage, sorcerer, and monk.) can use certain magic weapons (Light blades or heavy blades for swordmages, daggers for sorcerers, monk weapons for monks.) as implements. If you're able to wield a magic weapon as an implement (Swordmage, sorcerer, or monk.) and use an implement power through it, you add ...
PH2 204 is not a specific rule overriding the general. It just clarifies on how to apply the enhancement bonus of enchanted weapons for those classes that have class features allowing weapons to be used as implements.
Even the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat does not allow you to use the weapon enchantment on a staff for implement powers. The monk is not an arcane class.
According to this view, Arcane Implement Proficiency [heavy blades] does nothing if you are a wizard.
Obviously you are not a swordmage, so you are not one of the few elite classes you have pointed out, and even though you can now use implement powers through a heavy blade, you do not get to add your weapon/implement enhancement bonus to implement attacks.
Do you really think this is how you should be reading that?
Hell, even the sorcerer should not be included in this elite list--no where in their class description does it ever mention the word "weapon" in regards to being usable as an implement.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 6:44AM
#436
|
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
|
According to this view, Arcane Implement Proficiency [heavy blades] does nothing if you are a wizard.
Obviously you are not a swordmage, so you are not one of the few elite classes you have pointed out, and even though you can now use implement powers through a heavy blade, you do not get to add your weapon/implement enhancement bonus to implement attacks.
Do you really think this is how you should be reading that?
Hell, even the sorcerer should not be included in this elite list--no where in their class description does it ever mention the word "weapon" in regards to being usable as an implement.
Where do you get that?
Arcane Implement Proficiency would allow a wizard to use an enchanted Heavy blade, light blade, or dagger as an enchanted implement since those weapons are useable by other arcane classes as implements. There are no arcane classes with the class feature that allows them to use a staff with a weapon enchantment as an enchanted implement. It is not about the weapon, it is about the class feature that allows them to use the weapon as an implement.
A wizard can not use a rod as an implement because it is not a wizard implement. If a wizard takes the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat and becomes proficient with wielding a rod, he would then be able to use rods as implements for his wizard powers.
The same thing applies to weapons wielded as implements. If another arcane class is proficient with wielding an enchanted weapon as an enchanted implement then you can also be proficient with wielding an enchanted weapon as an enchanted implement with the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat.
Swordmages can wield light blades or heavy blades as implements.
Sorcerers can wield daggers as implements.
Those are the only two arcane classes that can wield weapons as implements so far. Therefore those are the only weapons that you would be able to become proficient with as implements so far.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 6:54AM
#437
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
|
Where do you get that?
No it would not.
PH2 p204
"Some classes can use certain magic weapons as implements. If you are able to wield a magic weapon as an implement and use an implement power through it,..."
Swordmages, sorcerers, and monks have class features that allow them to use certain weapons as implements. Only the monk can use a weapon enchanted staff as an implement.
A wizard is still a wizard, even with arcane implement proficiency. They are not one of those "some classes." Obviously, since they are not one of those "some classes" then the section about using a weapon as an implement does not apply to them.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 7:08AM
#438
|
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
|
A wizard is still a wizard, even with arcane implement proficiency. They are not one of those "some classes." Obviously, since they are not one of those "some classes" then the section about using a weapon as an implement does not apply to them.
It does with the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat. That feat essentially gives the wizard that class feature.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 7:14AM
#439
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
|
It does with the Arcane Implement Proficiency feat. That feat essentially gives the wizard that class feature.
Regardless, they are still not one of those "some classes."
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
May 21, 2009 - 12:13PM
#440
|
|
|
The second sentence follows the first. Some classes (Only the classes that state they can use weapons as implements i.e. swordmage, sorcerer, and monk.) can use certain magic weapons (Light blades or heavy blades for swordmages, daggers for sorcerers, monk weapons for monks.) as implements. If you're able to wield a magic weapon as an implement (Swordmage, sorcerer, or monk.) and use an implement power through it, you add ...
The first sentence introduces the second, it doesn't modify it. It's just a general statement that starts off the text. It isn't even really usable as a ruke as it doesn't tell you which classes go with which weapons. For that you need to refer to the specific text for each class.
The following sentences are simple conditionals. "If A then B". If A is true B cannot be false.
Can a wizard wield a magic quarterstaff as an implement and use implement powers through it? If so, they get the enhancement bonus.
Can a wizard score a critical hit with the magic quarterstaff while using it as an implement? If so, they can use the weapon's critical hit effect.
If a wizard can not use a magic quarterstaff as an implement, than neither of those benefits apply.
The confusing thing is earlier you said things like:
A staff enchanted as a weapon i.e. Flaming Weapon +2 grants an enhancement bonus only to weapon attacks. If used as an implement it is the same as a nonmagic staff and confers no benefit.
Once you say "if used as an implement" people assume you're saying it can be used as an implement, in which can the weapons as implements text applies. Is your current stance that the magical quarterstaff can not be used as an implement? If so then the rest of your posts are significantly easier to understand.
|
|
|
)
