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5 years ago ::
Sep 05, 2008 - 7:52PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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If the goal is to kill all the PCs then CG may well be overpowered. If the goal is for the Cleric to keep the party alive while they defeat the enemy, then it is working as intended. DM could always focus fire on the Cleric. I don't see how the effect would be reasonably expected to continue after the Cleric is knocked out. (Personally, as a lvl 3 Cleric, I am very much looking forward to casting Sanctuary on myself and using it in exactly this sort of situation.)
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5 years ago ::
Sep 06, 2008 - 4:59AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2003
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I believe most people are missing the point.
Suggestions like 'get an NPC with dispel magic', 'use improvised rolling logs on fire', etc don't really help with the Consecrated Ground issue.
Those ideas [above] may work if the enemies prepare some sort of ambush and know exactly what the PCs will do.
But most of the time, that isn't the case and that's what's the problem with CG.
I'm guessing that the best solution would be to rule that if the cleric falls unconscious that his maintained spell fades away.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 06, 2008 - 9:28AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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From how the power is written it is pretty clear that as long as the cleric sustains the power it keeps on going. "The burst creates a zone of sanctified ground that lasts until the end of your next turn." It does not say that lasts until the end of your next turn unless you are below 0 hitpoints/unconsious/dominated etc.
The enemies have lots of options (retreating, just using ranged attacks, pushing players out of the zone, using powers that dominate or otherwise make the cleric unable to sustain) and the power is restricted enough in size that I do not think it is over powered for a daily.
my handbooks & builds
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5 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2008 - 5:17AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2003
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From how the power is written it is pretty clear that as long as the cleric sustains the power it keeps on going. "The burst creates a zone of sanctified ground that lasts until the end of your next turn." It does not say that lasts until the end of your next turn unless you are below 0 hitpoints/unconsious/dominated etc.
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That is the problem. We are aware how it works, but since it can last indefinitely, issues as immortality can arise.
The enemies have lots of options (retreating, just using ranged attacks, pushing players out of the zone, using powers that dominate or otherwise make the cleric unable to sustain) and the power is restricted enough in size that I do not think it is over powered for a daily.
Retreating? This is clearly not a solution to the problem.
Ranged attacks? The zone can be moved. It is slow, though.
pushing players out of the zone? Again, the zone can be moved. [Also, the players can move back into the zone, too]
using powers that dominate or otherwise make the cleric unable to sustain? I believe these effects are a bit too rare to declare this as an option in the common scenario.
the power is restricted enough in size that I do not think it is over powered for a daily? Size of the power isn't an issue here, it's the effects it grants.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2008 - 11:49AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2004
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Even if your cleric does not move the zone I would assume the rule for his distance from the zone still applies.
Unfortunately Consecrated Ground is has no real range. It's a Close burst 1. Does that mean that if the cleric moves outside of the zone the effect ends?
I'm aware that that's what he meant, but the point still remains - it effectively allows enemies to "dispel" any powers simply by knocking someone to 0 - that's not how the rules handle it and that's going to weaken those powers consideraby, especially the party-bolstering ones which leaders typically grant.[/quote]
Not really, the only effects that end when the creator is slain are zones and conjurations. Having those end if the creator is knocked unconscious doesn't weaken many powers since most conjurations and zones require sustains anyway.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2008 - 3:51PM
#46
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Retreating? This is clearly not a solution to the problem.
Why not? Retreating should be the solution whenever the PCs are clearly outmatched - why not have the monsters take the hint? Send a runner to the next group of monsters to tell them exactly what to expect, hide somewhere to ambush the characters later, take out the lunch packages... so many possibilities when the monsters get the distinct feeling they'll be sword-fodder if they persist in attacking.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2008 - 1:59PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2003
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Why not? Retreating should be the solution whenever the PCs are clearly outmatched - why not have the monsters take the hint? Send a runner to the next group of monsters to tell them exactly what to expect, hide somewhere to ambush the characters later, take out the lunch packages... so many possibilities when the monsters get the distinct feeling they'll be sword-fodder if they persist in attacking.
Spells that automatically make monsters run away are not ok. Don't you agree?
Also, the monsters will probably die before they figure out what's going on :P
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I'm wondering do sustain effects end when the caster is knocked unconscious?
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5 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2008 - 3:23PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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Spells that automatically make monsters run away are not ok. Don't you agree?
Also, the monsters will probably die before they figure out what's going on :P
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I'm wondering do sustain effects end when the caster is knocked unconscious?
I vaguely recall reading somewhere that they do. Even if there isn't a specific rule for it, it's RAI imho, and that's how it will be houseruled.
Yes I realize houseruling doesn't "fix" the problem, and I'm not suggesting it does. It's simply how I'm personally going to handle it.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2008 - 3:24PM
#49
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Date Joined:
Aug 23, 2008
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I really don't see Consecrated Ground as a problem. It is powerful, but it is a daily and requires the cleric to sustain to keep it going. If there is a big mob of enemies, once one of them knocks the cleric unconscious and dying, have several of them ready an action to attack the cleric when he gets CG healing and becomes conscious again. If they drop him again, he doesn't have a chance to sustain CG and it will end with his turn.
If they can't deal with it the players win the battle, but the cleric won't have CG ready for the next fight.
Hmmm, I remember reading a post about an all cleric party. Consecrated ground all day long.
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5 years ago ::
Oct 10, 2008 - 6:45AM
#50
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This came up last night and we were suprised it hasnt been errated. CG + Healer's lore gave a nice boost every round. There was a large creature who keept beating people down and having them pop up every round. The only way the DM was able to get rid of the effect was to bull rush the cleric out of the zone and then knock her unconcious. Was really a pain. It does seem quite overpowered compared to the other spells of that level. Even the players seemed to agree it's quite a bit broken.
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