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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 3:25AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2008
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I suspected that this daily could be abused very nastily and tonight I had those suspicions confirmed. The 18 wis 14 cha cleric cast Beacon of Hope and then Consecrated Ground when the party got in a tight spot after pulling a second encounter after a boss fight. Worked great for the party--too great, because the entire party sat in the consecrated ground while the cleric hid. Monsters would do damage and knock party members unconscious, but the unconscious PCs would be healed on their turns for a whopping 12 hit points. Basically it was impossible to kill the party members short of a coup de grace which I'm not going to dare try. I've seen no errata and no discussion of this power on the board, so what gives? It clearly receives the bonuses from Healing Lore and Beacon of Hope because CG has the healing keyword, but it seems grossly overpowered when compared to other dailies. I am thinking of changing CG to bring a negative hp PC back to 0, and then continue its normal healing on the next round unless the character is harmed again. Thoughts?
"Consecrated Ground Cleric Attack 5
Daily ✦ Divine, Healing, Radiant, Zone
Standard Action Close burst 1
Effect: The burst creates a zone of sanctified ground that
lasts until the end of your next turn. You can move the origin
square of the zone 3 squares as a move action. Enemies
that start their turns within the zone take 1d6 + your Charisma
modifier radiant damage. You and any allies who are
bloodied and start their turns within the zone regain hit
points equal to 1 + your Charisma modifier.
Sustain Minor: The zone persists."
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 4:27AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2002
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A nice find.
By the way, is it even necessary for the cleric to hide? When he stays in the zone he is also healed at the start of every turn. So even when he is reduced to 0 HP the cleric is healed at the start of his turn and ready again to sustain the zone.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 4:41AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2003
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Just things I would like to add:
-the cleric must sustain the power [need to check what happens if he is knocked unconscious]
-there might be problems if your PCs move out of the area [the radius isn't that big]
-in your combo [Beacon of Hope + Concecrated Grounds], you need to cast two Daily powers
...now when I think about it, CG seems to be pretty potent...
Coup de Grace all the way then... xD
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 5:14AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2002
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Just things I would like to add:
-the cleric must sustain the power [need to check what happens if he is knocked unconscious]
-there might be problems if your PCs move out of the area [the radius isn't that big]
-in your combo [Beacon of Hope + Concecrated Grounds], you need to cast two Daily powers
...now when I think about it, CG seems to be pretty potent...
Coup de Grace all the way then... xD
1. When the cleric stays in the field he is healed at the start of his turn and can sustain. If he isn't then the zone would collapse after 1 round.
2. No, it isn't. But when you have an archery ranger that wouldn't be a problem. Either the enemies flee, get killed at range or come to the PCs. Also the field can be moved.
3. Yes, but it looks like it is worth it.
By the way, Coup de Grace isn't an automatic kill anymore. It only deals maximum damage like a critical hit. And with 4Es healing rules the amount of negative HP doesn't matter when the PCs are still alive as at the start of their turn they are healed which resets their HP to 0 and then heals them.
The only way to kill with CdG is to do damage = the PCs bloodied value in one hit and that is not a easy task, especially for monsters.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 5:24AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2003
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Our party cleric just got the spell last session and he got the opprotunity to use it only once in one 'boss' fight. We were fighting this fire-spellcaster and since our only opponent moved a lot, CG didn't seem that insane, although it was useful. [we had Beacon of Hope, too].
But after reading this thread, I'm convinced that CG can truly be powerful.
No fixes or something ?
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 5:29AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2007
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It certainly is potent, but also fair for a level 5 daily. Emir is right, the cleric needs to spend a minor action to sustain the zone. If the cleric is knocked out and not brought around (healed) by the end of his next turn, the zone vanishes. The last time the group I play with used it, the bad guys concentrated their fire on the cleric (that's me). It took most of our resources to keep me from going down. The zone isn't that big (3x3).
I would also note that the healed number of hit points does not scale with upper levels. I'm wondering if there is another zone with a similar effect for upper levels...
Consecrated ground, in effect, keeps all PC's in the zone alive. If they go below zero, when they start their next turn, they're conscious again. This assumes that any ongoing damage is less than the healing that the zone provides. That comes in super handy. Our fighter was envoloped by a shambling mound the other night. Without line of site or effect, our normal healings (healing word and inspiring word) were useless. I had to use Consecrated Ground to keep him alive.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 5:41AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2002
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The last time the group I play with used it, the bad guys concentrated their fire on the cleric (that's me). It took most of our resources to keep me from going down.
Why is this a problem? When you stand in the zone yourself then the enemies can concentrate as much as they want. Unless they kill you you are up again at the start of your turn.
And when all enemies are able to attack the cleric then the defender is doing something wrong.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 6:59AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2008
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I think some rules might help us out here.
"If a power allows you to move a zone, at least 1 square that the zone covers must remain within the power's range. If you move far enough away from a zone that it is no longer in range, its effects immediately end. PHB p.59"
Even if your cleric does not move the zone I would assume the rule for his distance from the zone still applies.
"If a zone's creator is slain, the zone immediately ends. PHB p.59"
This answers the cleric dieing question.
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 7:54AM
#9
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2004
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After watching the PCs stand up from unconsciousness multiple times, I would have started in with Coup de Graces. Honestly, I don't think my players would object either. It isn't something I do often or lightly, but the circumstances dictated the action.
-SYB
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5 years ago ::
Sep 01, 2008 - 9:09AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2003
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I think some rules might help us out here.
"If a power allows you to move a zone, at least 1 square that the zone covers must remain within the power's range. If you move far enough away from a zone that it is no longer in range, its effects immediately end. PHB p.59"
Even if your cleric does not move the zone I would assume the rule for his distance from the zone still applies.
"If a zone's creator is slain, the zone immediately ends. PHB p.59"
This answers the cleric dieing question.
slain isn't the same as being knocked unconscious.. again, unless the Cleric takes damage or drops below a value equal to her healing value from surge, she isn't dead. ie if she has 15 healing value she'd have to be reduced to -15 in order to be slain.
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