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4 years ago ::
Feb 12, 2009 - 9:52PM
#401
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Date Joined:
Jan 14, 2006
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I like the warden, it's an interesting idea.
and mechanicly it seems good also
Me too mind you, I like the idea and I like the mechanics. I don't like how they put it together. And of course I wanted a primal defender, I only say that fluff seems made hastily and superficially, paying way too much homage to Needless Symmetry (tm).
There were many other possibilities to be explored, but they opted for the obvious and cheesy. In a way, even the Sorcerer suffers from this. Especially in the choice of role (a new "ranged defender", or kind of tough controller would have been a more interesting perspective) and of "heritages", which could have been eliminated altogether in favor of more open self-taught "disciplines", but again they wanted to pay homage to legacy. However... After all I see nobody talking about childish factor in Warden or others, so maybe it's really just me.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 12, 2009 - 10:16PM
#402
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Date Joined:
Feb 21, 2007
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Me too mind you, I like the idea and I like the mechanics. I don't like how they put it together. And of course I wanted a primal defender, I only say that fluff seems made hastily and superficially, paying way too much homage to Needless Symmetry (tm).
There were many other possibilities to be explored, but they opted for the obvious and cheesy. In a way, even the Sorcerer suffers from this. Especially in the choice of role (a new "ranged defender", or kind of tough controller would have been a more interesting perspective) and of "heritages", which could have been eliminated altogether in favor of more open self-taught "disciplines", but again they wanted to pay homage to legacy. However... After all I see nobody talking about childish factor in Warden or others, so maybe it's really just me.
to each there own, I do not see any childish factor, then again we all play a game with elves unicorns and dragons 
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4 years ago ::
Feb 12, 2009 - 10:19PM
#403
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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I say give them a chance; the Warden may seem tired and old right now, but that's because they're trying to take a liberal dose of what was once Ranger fluff (the protector of the wild bit; Rangers kill things now, that's not really protective), mix in some shape-shifting a la 3.5E Druid, and produce something fresh. Meanwhile, the Sorcerer is sticking to his 3E guns; he is the descendant of uber magical creatures and/or dabbling in energy he does not understand, and therefore seems a bit tired to us 3E veterans 'cause we've heard 8 years of that fluff.
Try to give them an honest, unbiased look, is all I'm saying. If you don't like the fluff, you're well within your rights to shake it up a bit.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 12, 2009 - 10:55PM
#404
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Date Joined:
Feb 21, 2007
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I say give them a chance; the Warden may seem tired and old right now, but that's because they're trying to take a liberal dose of what was once Ranger fluff (the protector of the wild bit; Rangers kill things now, that's not really protective), mix in some shape-shifting a la 3.5E Druid, and produce something fresh. Meanwhile, the Sorcerer is sticking to his 3E guns; he is the descendant of uber magical creatures and/or dabbling in energy he does not understand, and therefore seems a bit tired to us 3E vetarans 'cause we've heard 8 years of that fluff.
Try to give them an honest, unbiased look, is all I'm saying. If you don't like the fluff, you're well within your rights to shake it up a bit.
until the age of legends 4th is out I have been thinking on how to make an obsidaman, the warden class could really work well with one from a fluff perspective
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 8:32AM
#405
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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I don't get this. They're completely even, and Warlocks start with Leather.
Warlock: 1 Feat for Hide, INT to AC (INT is a Lock's secondary stat and all...)
Sorcerer: 2 Feats for Hide, STR to AC
Locks are up by 1, and Dragon Sorcerer's actually want Leather, as the AV Masterwork Leathers give a bonus to REF (A Dragon Mage's only weakness, really). Warlocks just win hands down with both the Leather Prof and Shadow Step.
Except most locks will hav str as a dump stat so they probably wont ever qualify for hide. Then to make matters worse most of their powers seem to affect multiple enemies and they get their bonus damage every single freaking time. Thats what I really hate, also they never have to roll which means they are not going to ever be rolling a 1 for their damage. So yes I think its unbalanced, and not well thought out it should have been a controller not a striker. Also note that 6d6 damage is going to be a higher minimum as well as maximum from what the most damaging warlock daily is at lv1. Not to mention the half damage on a miss. I really hope arcane power brings the warlocks damgage potential up to what the sorc will be doing but Im not holding my breath WOTC seems to hate the warlock for some reason
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 8:42AM
#406
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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Umm, that would be because the Warlock has 10x the Utility the Sorcerer will ever have? Seriously, the Sorcerer is a Glass Cannon; hit him twice and he's toast. The Warlock teleports, has Temporary HP, has CON as a primary Stat (so he's even more durable than the Sorcerer), and also has plenty of Debuff Attack and Utility Powers. Shielding Shades and Entropic Shield are better than anything the Sorcerer will have. Lastly, you're discounting that a Warlock rolling a 6 (or an 8 with a Vicious Rod!) deals way more than an equal-level Sorcerer, and most Warlock Powers are single-target anyway, so it shouldn't even matter to them.
Resident Logic Cannon
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 9:13AM
#407
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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Umm, that would be because the Warlock has 10x the Utility the Sorcerer will ever have? Seriously, the Sorcerer is a Glass Cannon; hit him twice and he's toast. The Warlock teleports, has Temporary HP, has CON as a primary Stat (so he's even more durable than the Sorcerer), and also has plenty of Debuff Attack and Utility Powers. Shielding Shades and Entropic Shield are better than anything the Sorcerer will have. Lastly, you're discounting that a Warlock rolling a 6 (or an 8 with a Vicious Rod!) deals way more than an equal-level Sorcerer, and most Warlock Powers are single-target anyway, so it shouldn't even matter to them.
The sorcerer utilities are also very useful, and im aware that most warlock powers are single target this becomes a problem. And yes Im having fun as the warlock but the sorc adding bonus damage every time is still just plain wrong. Get a good hit in on several creatures and their damage goes through the roof. Once I see the php2 Ill probably find a way to fiddle with the sorc to turn it into a controller, or just drop it all together, as I dont see a need for 2 arcane strikers.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 9:34AM
#408
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Date Joined:
Jun 18, 2003
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Then you should drop the Ranger, as well. It's the same principle.
Resident Logic Cannon
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 9:36AM
#409
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And yet you seem to have no problem with 2 martial strikers.......
Honestly, none of us have seen more than a small percentage of what the Sorcerer can do, or in what ways it is mechanically, and (more importantly) tactically, different from the Warlock.
Until such times as Arcane Power is released, a true comparison of both classes is impossible, as the Developer's have been quoted previously as saying that (in hindsight) they realised they had slightly underpowered some of the PH1 classes (esp. casters).
Personally, I have no problem with the fact that they underpowered any of the PH1 classes. As a game designer myself, I know full well how easy it is to increase the power of any given class to bring it up to par with the other classes, whether in a future revision, or future splat-book (eg. Arcane Power).
OTOH, its next to impossible to reduce the power of any given class/option (without a complete re-write/errata of the offending material), due to the simple fact that once a given option (eg. class, power, feat, etc) has been published, there is little you can do to prevent players from using it - regardless of how broken/overpowered it is in comparison to other equivalent options.
Case in point - the 3.5 Cleric.
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4 years ago ::
Feb 13, 2009 - 9:54AM
#410
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Date Joined:
Jul 14, 2008
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The sorcerer utilities are also very useful, and im aware that most warlock powers are single target this becomes a problem. And yes Im having fun as the warlock but the sorc adding bonus damage every time is still just plain wrong. Get a good hit in on several creatures and their damage goes through the roof. Once I see the php2 Ill probably find a way to fiddle with the sorc to turn it into a controller, or just drop it all together, as I dont see a need for 2 arcane strikers.
Have you even read this thread? Every damage assessment puts the sorcerer even with the warlock (or slightly behind). When the sorcerer is ahead of the warlock in DPR it is by 1 or 2 points (sometimes just a fraction of a point).
STR 13 is not hard to get (if you can, for some reason, only afford 12 STR to start, it could bump at 4th), for any race with a racial boost to a Warlock stat (or STR I suppose). Wild Sorcerers will have the same problem as warlocks (that is, CHA based warlocks)- their stats don't support armor proficiencies. So they'll both have good Will (the same in fact, with both having CHA as primary) and Ref (again, the same, with DEX/INT being secondary), but poor Fort (yet again, the same), and the AC will be the same if they have the same feats (if the sorcerer doesn't spring for better armor, the warlock will have better AC, which will become more noticable with masterwork armors).
The dragonsorcerer will have better Fort than either the CHA warlock or the wildsorcerer, but no Ref to speak of, and it will get better armor sooner and easier. The CON warlock will have better Fort than any of them, Ref equal to the wildsorcer/CHA warlock, the same AC as any other warlock (i.e. better than a sorcerer), but no Will.
And the warlock gets shadow step.
The warlock has equal, or better defenses.
One-half of the tabletop gaming news podcast Going LastCo-author on AoA 2-3 and 4-1.
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