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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 5:44AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2008
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i think batle rager is completely broken at low level. BEHOLD BROKENESS
if you play dwarf with 20 con and 14 str . you take the stone bold feat. so you have resistance 7 to melee atack at level 1 ! at level 2 you have the utility that give you 7 regeneration on top of that. YOU CANOT DIE. At level 8 you with the other feat you have 10 Resist ! or Temporary Hitpoint same deal
With brash strike you do like 2 str damage + 2 from rager + 5 from con + your weapon damage + dwarven training 2 damage feat
So you do similar damage as a rogue That uses Sky flourish of your level but of course your AB is +- 15% less with brash strike compare to their sky flourish, but you cant die. not quite sure how fair this is
I am a big fan of High AC but who needs AC when you soak 7 AT level 2
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 6:07AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Jun 16, 2008
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if you play dwarf with 20 con and 14 str . you take the stone bold feat. so you have resistance 7 to melee atack at level 1 !
Where's this feat? I cannot find it neither in PHB nor in MP.
at level 2 you have the utility that give you 7 regeneration on top of that. YOU CANOT DIE.
You can. It's just way hard. And that's how that power is supposed to work (incidentally, it works only once per day).
At level 8 you with the other feat you have 10 Resist ! or Temporary Hitpoint same deal
What's "the other feat"?
Anyway, temporary hp is way worse than resistance.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 6:30AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2006
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What he has to be talking about is the Dwarf Stoneblood and it doesn't add resistance, it just adds 1/2 your dwarfs con mod to the temp hp gained by your Battlerager Vigor.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 6:31AM
#4
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i think batle rager is completely broken at low level. BEHOLD BROKENESS[/quote]
Agreed :thumbsdow
I just ran a test:
Weapon Talent Fighter (one-handed) vs. Battlerager Fighter (one-handed)
Feat: Dwarven Weapons Training vs. Dwarf Stoneblood
Attack: Cleave vs. Crushing Surge
Same stats and gear save armor:
Scale-Weapon Talent Fighter
Chain-Battlerager Fighter
Dwarf Fighter (Lvl 1) vs, 2 Kolbold Dragonshields (Lvl 2)
Heavy Shield, Warhammer
Str: 16
Con: 18
Dex: 11
Int: 8
Wis: 15
Cha: 10
Results:
Weapon Talent Fighter: After 6 rounds of combat he was dead having used his 2nd wind too. He had killed 1 kobold and the other kobold had 14 hp left.
The Battlerager: After 6 rounds, he had 20 temp hp and 31 of 33 hitpoints, and not used his 2nd wind. He had killed 1 kobold and the other kobold had 24 hp left.
I stopped there, because the whole thing got ridiculous, on one hand you had a dead fighter and the other a fighter standing invincible. Makes me wonder about WotC playtesting. Test it yourselves, it's broken to pieces. The Battlerager could having taken on probably 5 & 6 kobolds, b/c every time he got hit he gained +6 temp hp and the avg dmage of a Kolbold Dragonshield is about 6 damage, the only reasons the Battlerager couldn't take on infinite kobolds are criticals hits or a streak of higher than avg damage rolls for a lot of kobolds over many turns. I guess on the plus side, there is little necessity to go Demigod, pick any Epic destiny you want, u'll probably be ok.
McSmashin
I hope they plan an update soon. The stacking hitpoints is tooo powerful.
McSmashin
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 6:37AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2008
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Where's this feat? I cannot find it either in PHB nor in MP.
You can. It's just way hard. And that's how that power is supposed to work (incidentally, it works only once per day).
What's "the other feat"?
Anyway, temporary hp is way worse than resistance.
Well they are in the new book. But page 133 of the Martial Power Book is the Dwarven Feat and The other feat is at page 136 its call Improve Vigor.
And no actualy for the most part since they stack, temporary HP is probably beter then resistance, But you can also have a armor with resistance, just to make sure your broken
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 6:40AM
#6
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I just ran a test:
Did you roll seperately for both tests, or were you using the same array of d20 rolls for both combats? Lucky rolls can make a huge difference in this sort of situation.
As far as overall power, they're great standalone Defenders. They don't necessarily play well with others, though. Temp HP from other sources don't stack, so most of the in-combat healing available from the party Warlord or a lot of the Paladin (and potentially Cleric, I've got less experience there) powers that bolster allies. He's also going to be competing with more of the party for armor if he's sticking to Chain, whereas the one-handed Fighter is alone at Scale.
I'll have to see it in an actual game situation before I declare broken. But that's my stance on pretty much everything.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 6:59AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2008
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Ummm, so whats to stop the enemies from ignoring you and going for the rest of your party? Your +to hit will be +4 with an axe/hammer or +5 with a sword. On a combat challenge you're probably going to miss your combat challenge or hit the enemy for 1W+2... not exactly a big deterrent.
The brash attack is nice though, however the rest of your attacks will suffer from the really low strength you have.
And you're pretty much invincible only until your DM throws Spell casters or ranged enemies at you I guess.... they'll happily shoot at point blank while you keep trying to swing at them :D
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 7:04AM
#8
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Did you roll seperately for both tests, or were you using the same array of d20 rolls for both combats? Lucky rolls can make a huge difference in this sort of situation.
Luck had nothing to do with it, unfortunately. I wanted Battlerager to work properly, but it just doesn't.
As far as overall power, they're great standalone Defenders. They don't necessarily play well with others, though.
They do stand alone, the whole party could died, and they could walk away fine.
Temp HP from other sources don't stack, so most of the in-combat healing available from the party Warlord or a lot of the Paladin (and potentially Cleric, I've got less experience there) powers that bolster allies. He's also going to be competing with more of the party for armor if he's sticking to Chain, whereas the one-handed Fighter is alone at Scale.
They don't need healing from anyone. Not having scale is not a problem, they don't take damage (at least at low level play). I could have done the same test with the Battlerager with without clothes. He would have still won. :thumbsdow
I'll have to see it in an actual game situation before I declare broken. But that's my stance on pretty much everything.
I agree with you, seeing is believing. Try the character I just made, I bet he won't die.
McSmashin.
McSmashin
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 7:15AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 29, 2008
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They do stand alone, the whole party could died, and they could walk away fine.
They don't need healing from anyone. Not having scale is not a problem, they don't take damage (at least at low level play). I could have done the same test with the Battlerager with without clothes. He would have still won. :thumbsdow
I agree with you, seeing is believing. Try the character I just made, I bet he won't die.
McSmashin.
What if your solo Fighter met a bunch of kobold sharpshooters? The ranged attacks don't set off your damage reduction.
Think he'll pretty much die in that situation.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 20, 2008 - 7:29AM
#10
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Luck had nothing to do with it, unfortunately. I wanted Battlerager to work properly, but it just doesn't.
So did you or didn't you roll both combats seperately? It's a pretty big deal, and I want to make sure we're on the same page.
They do stand alone, the whole party could died, and they could walk away fine.
... if they only fight two soldiers at once. Ranged enemies, spellcasters, anything that debuffs, etc owns them pretty hard. If you throw enemies that are right up their alley, sure they're going to rock. You can't expect that to always be the case, however.
They don't need healing from anyone. Not having scale is not a problem, they don't take damage (at least at low level play). I could have done the same test with the Battlerager with without clothes. He would have still won. :thumbsdow
Chain has a lower AC (by one point, but still), and a higher check penalty than Scale. You built both of them to optimize Battlerager, all the way down to the equipment. Try it with a Fighter who is actually taking advantage of access to better weapons and armor (Heavy Blades and Scale), and include applicable powers. A Battlerager may be able to stand there and tank all day, but if the other guy is a Greatsword Fighter who can drop one of the kobolds in two turns the dynamic changes.
Bottom line, one of the two builds is optimized to stand there and chip away at the Kobolds, the other isn't. Guess which one dominated the test?
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