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Switch to Forum Live View Two-Weapon Fighter!!! OMFG!!! 3 Ways to Dual-Wield without Tempest!!!
5 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2008 - 5:22PM #31
Lord_Ventnor
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 5,399

Stuntman wrote:

It (first 11 levels, didn't pay attention past it) looks good to me. Personally, I would have taken TWF and TWD as my first two feats. I haven't had a chance to analyse all of the options in detail, but it would seem that going into paragon multiclassing to a ranger is a good option. With Twin Strike, you can mark multiple more creatures than with just one weapon. It's too bad that by starting as a fighter, you cannot take advantage of Heavy Blade opportunity and Twin Strike because your off-hand weapon cannot be a heavy blade. There are no heavy blades with the off-hand property. I guess that would be too good.


Actually, I believe that if I start Twin Strike off with the Scimitar, then yes, Twin Strike is usable as an OA. In fact, a lot of the build is made with that assumption.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2008 - 5:53PM #32
Chickenbane187
Date Joined: Aug 21, 2008
Posts: 8

McSmashin wrote:

Sorry, I dont think this works.....

Although you are a Warrior of the Wild, the multiclass feat does not say you can specialize in Archer Ranger or Two-Blade Ranger, so you don't get Two-Blade Fighting Style - so you don't qualify for any powers that are specifically needing, Two-Blade Fighting Style , you only qualify for general Ranger Powers....

sorry.


The paragon path option the author is using is presented on page 209 in Paragon multiclassing. Its an additional option to taking a real paragon path. Frequently considered very underpowered, it works pretty well in this case.

This allows us to avoid the class feature requirement of pathfinder and stormwarden.

Aside from that, I can't find any powers that require 2 weapon fighting style. They all require "must be wielding 2 melee weapons".

If theres anything I missed, let me know.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 29, 2008 - 10:41PM #33
Stuntman
  • Stampeding Hybrid
Date Joined: Sep 13, 2001
Posts: 3,589

Lord_Ventnor wrote:

Actually, I believe that if I start Twin Strike off with the Scimitar, then yes, Twin Strike is usable as an OA. In fact, a lot of the build is made with that assumption.


So, if your primary weapon is a heavy blade, then your off-hand weapon can be anything and still use Twin Strike with Heavy Blade Opportunity? Hmmm. I guess by the RAW, it looks like it could work. Had to read it carefully. It's cool you get three OA's with Twin Fury. That's awesome.

<\
\>tuntman
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 3:09AM #34
eamon
Date Joined: May 4, 2007
Posts: 976

Stuntman wrote:

So, if your primary weapon is a heavy blade, then your off-hand weapon can be anything and still use Twin Strike with Heavy Blade Opportunity? Hmmm. I guess by the RAW, it looks like it could work. Had to read it carefully. It's cool you get three OA's with Twin Fury. That's awesome.


My vote is that it's not important, but probably technically not allowed/intended. Clearly Heavy Blade Opportunity restricts you to using heavy blades, and you're violating that. The wording doesn't consider twin strike very well, but the meaning is clear. In any case, it's not a balance problem, and I'd allow it specifically for this build (though maybe not in general).

Using two weapon flurry you'd get three attacks but technically only two opportunity attacks: your first (normal) one which you happen to take with twin strike - but the individual strikes don't themselves count as OA's (if they did, you'd get infinite loops), and if twin strike hits, you may use flurry to make an OA with your off hand (which you can use heavy blade opportunity with if your off hand is a heavy blade, but cannot use twin strike for, since that's not an OA with your off-hand weapon - which is specifically mentioned.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 3:32AM #35
Tylelian
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 143
I like this build very much. I especially like that its a Paragon multi-class build (which many view as weaker than Paragon Paths). Great Job!
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 7:50AM #36
Adslahnit
Date Joined: Jan 22, 2007
Posts: 1,071
Hate to crash the party here, but this build seems underpowered to me; just because it's neat and well-presented means it's a good build. TWF is strictly worse for a fighter: you're not getting the +2 AC/Reflex from wearing a heavy shield, the extra damage per [W] that you'd get from wielding a two-hander, or the reach from a polearm. Wielding a pair of weapons that are each from a different weapon group is even worse, because it then requires you to take separate paragon/epic weapon feats. To top it all off, this build uses paragon multiclassing and the Eternal Seeker destiny, which are considered (and basically are) the least powerful options when it comes to paragon paths and epic destinies respectively.
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 10:22AM #37
Lord_Ventnor
  • Heroic Dungeon Master
Date Joined: Jul 9, 2008
Posts: 5,399

My vote is that it's not important, but probably technically not allowed/intended. Clearly Heavy Blade Opportunity restricts you to using heavy blades, and you're violating that. The wording doesn't consider twin strike very well, but the meaning is clear. In any case, it's not a balance problem, and I'd allow it specifically for this build (though maybe not in general).

Using two weapon flurry you'd get three attacks but technically only two opportunity attacks: your first (normal) one which you happen to take with twin strike - but the individual strikes don't themselves count as OA's (if they did, you'd get infinite loops), and if twin strike hits, you may use flurry to make an OA with your off hand (which you can use heavy blade opportunity with if your off hand is a heavy blade, but cannot use twin strike for, since that's not an OA with your off-hand weapon - which is specifically mentioned.


Yeah, only three attacks, all in all. Still, it's pretty good, far as I'm concerned. The attack with Two-Weapon flurry also gets Harvey's STR modifier added in because it's a basic attack.

Hate to crash the party here, but this build seems underpowered to me; just because it's neat and well-presented means it's a good build. TWF is strictly worse for a fighter: you're not getting the +2 AC/Reflex from wearing a heavy shield, the extra damage per [W] that you'd get from wielding a two-hander, or the reach from a polearm. Wielding a pair of weapons that are each from a different weapon group is even worse, because it then requires you to take separate paragon/epic weapon feats. To top it all off, this build uses paragon multiclassing and the Eternal Seeker destiny, which are considered (and basically are) the least powerful options when it comes to paragon paths and epic destinies respectively.


Harvey was never meant to be the most powerful character ever. I created him to show that yes, you CAN build a viable two-weapon defender with the current system without resorting to homebrewed feats and replacing class features.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 10:31AM #38
Monza
Date Joined: Apr 5, 2007
Posts: 81
Refreshing...
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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 1:19PM #39
Tylelian
Date Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 143

Lord_Ventnor wrote:

Harvey was never meant to be the most powerful character ever. I created him to show that yes, you CAN build a viable two-weapon defender with the current system without resorting to homebrewed feats and replacing class features.


Kudos to you! Let them squeeze rocks for extra +1s in the Optimization forum.

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5 years ago  ::  Aug 30, 2008 - 5:11PM #40
TheDigger
Date Joined: Jul 12, 2008
Posts: 48
I'm still working my way through this and I have a couple of questions about level 3 & 4.

3. Rain of Blows: I don't see how you get three attacks with this

4. How does Thundertusk Boar Strike, which allows you to push your opponent away set them up for Opportunity Attacks? You push on YOUR turn but you can only OA if the enemy moves on HIS turn.
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