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2 years ago ::
Jun 09, 2008 - 7:06AM
#11
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monk as a defender. hmmm, i actually kinda like it.
more akijitsu than shaolin whoopass, in philosophy.
i really can't see an early level monk putting out enough damage to be at home with other strikers like rogues the new rangers.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 09, 2008 - 8:05AM
#12
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Love the concept. I'll agree with the other posters, however, that some of the powers seem a little too good compared to the Fighter and Paladin's powers. (Granted, I don't have a lot of experience balancing classes, but 4th Edition has made me twice as interested in homebrew stuff because it's so internally consistent!)
Staggering Blow is equivalent to the fighter power Tide of Iron, except it pushes farther.
Fierce Blow is equivalent to the paladin power Holy Strike, except it ignores armor.
Honed Blow hits as hard as a basic attack but ignores armor, which the Rogue gets but neither of the defenders do.
The encounter powers look fine to me, but the daily power Crippling Blow actually seems a little underpowered - I feel like a bigger penalty or at least 2[W] damage would be more appropriate, but I'd like to hear what other people think.
Other than that, lots of cool stuff! There's a couple formatting issues (one of your Utility powers is in the Daily block, and it's Fortitude defense, not Constitution defense) but on the whole this is a really neat concept that I'd love to see developed further.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 09, 2008 - 8:43AM
#13
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Love the concept. I'll agree with the other posters, however, that some of the powers seem a little too good compared to the Fighter and Paladin's powers. (Granted, I don't have a lot of experience balancing classes, but 4th Edition has made me twice as interested in homebrew stuff because it's so internally consistent!)
Staggering Blow is equivalent to the fighter power Tide of Iron, except it pushes farther.
Fierce Blow is equivalent to the paladin power Holy Strike, except it ignores armor.
Honed Blow hits as hard as a basic attack but ignores armor, which the Rogue gets but neither of the defenders do.
The encounter powers look fine to me, but the daily power Crippling Blow actually seems a little underpowered - I feel like a bigger penalty or at least 2[W] damage would be more appropriate, but I'd like to hear what other people think.
Other than that, lots of cool stuff! There's a couple formatting issues (one of your Utility powers is in the Daily block, and it's Fortitude defense, not Constitution defense) but on the whole this is a really neat concept that I'd love to see developed further.
Thanks for your input Nth!
I think the hardest part in creating a homebrewed class is going to be the At-Will powers: making them balanced but distinct from other classes is, I think, going to be very challenging.
Staggering Blow: it pushes further than Tide of Iron, but doesn't give the ability to shift into the space you push it out of. Whether that's balanced or not, I'm not completely sure.
Fierce Blow I think I need to change to be against AC, and Honed Blow, perhaps I should drop the Wisdom modifier to damage? Maybe half it, rather than drop it totally.
And I shall look at correcting the formatting errors you pointed out after I get back from my game night - thanks for pointing those out!
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2 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 9:04AM
#14
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I also like the idea of Aikido defending monks.
There is no two-extended-finger palmstrike death punch, however. Unacceptable.
Actually, I think the complaint about ignoring AC is dead on. Perhaps making that a effect on a power at a later level is a better compromise.
Other than that, I think it looks like a very interesting class... I especially like the interrupt ideas.
Well done!
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2 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 10:06AM
#15
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What is your implement/weapon/symbol for this class? Seems to me they should have something to give them a bonus to hit/damage. Im not sure i like the bonus to damage on unarmed strike, seems weak early and strong later since your avg dmg will initially be 3.5 and scale up to 9.5 and im not sure weapons scale that well. Could give them 2 "moves" a +3 to hit 1d8damage "punch" and a "kick" that is +2 to hit and 1d10 damage. They lose the extra advantage an equivalent fighter/paladin gets but they always have their weapons.
Flurry of blows seems a bit strong as an encounter power. Sure you give up an at will but trading pushing a foe 2 squares versus an extra attack seems overpowered to me. Consider the paladin equivalent just adds his strength bonus to one attack per encounter and your adding 3 extra attacks at epic tier. I would suggest instead givng them 1/encounter a second attack, Dex vs. AC that does [w] but no modifier. This may eventually do less damage then the paladin equivalent but could be used on a separate target.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 10:28AM
#16
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I don't think there's a real problem with two at-will powers foing to reflex instead of armor. I would use a DEX build and take the Staggering Blow and Nimble Blow at-will powers since they have reasonable to-hit and damage with speacial abilities. A DEX monk with crossbow/daggers/shirukens would be awesome.
- Grappling/Grabbing - I always used to love Grappling in 3.5, even when it didn't work out for me. I think there should be some powers that assist in grabbing or give some kind of grappling speacialty.
- Staggering Blow - I do question the wisdom of letting a level 1 character knock enemies off cliffs at will, but I love doing that so much. I guess wizards get Thunderstrike...
- Nimble Blow - I do not understand where the +1 attack bonus comes from.
- Dual Blows - I think maybe this should be switched with Staggering Blow as an at-will/encounter power. I also think that it should go to AC, not Ref.
- Stunning Blow - Why doesn't Stunning Blow...stun?
- Interfering Blow - So the guy across the battlefield from me gets my dex bonus, even if his armor is better and he is not fighting the same enemy or standing anywhere near me?
- An Interrupting Blow/Grab would be cool.
- Dailies - I think these are okay.
- Utilities - I like these.
- Mighty Throw - I want to use this to injur my oppenent, and the guy I threw him at. Okay, maybe that's too strong at third level, but it would be friggin cool.
- Sweep the Legs - What no damage? Not even damage equal to my wisdom or strength modifier?
And the math? I hate math.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 11:49AM
#17
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I also like the idea of Aikido defending monks.
There is no two-extended-finger palmstrike death punch, however. Unacceptable.
Not yet there isn't, but I'm not finished yet. 
Actually, I think the complaint about ignoring AC is dead on. Perhaps making that a effect on a power at a later level is a better compromise.
Yeah, I'm pretty much set on changing them. I do quite like the idea someone had on the "Build the Monk" thread in the Hybrid forum of giving the Monk a Dex vx AC basic power, but that can be used for OA's.
Other than that, I think it looks like a very interesting class... I especially like the interrupt ideas.
Well done!
Thank you very much! :D
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2 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 12:01PM
#18
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What is your implement/weapon/symbol for this class? Seems to me they should have something to give them a bonus to hit/damage. Im not sure i like the bonus to damage on unarmed strike, seems weak early and strong later since your avg dmg will initially be 3.5 and scale up to 9.5 and im not sure weapons scale that well. Could give them 2 "moves" a +3 to hit 1d8damage "punch" and a "kick" that is +2 to hit and 1d10 damage. They lose the extra advantage an equivalent fighter/paladin gets but they always have their weapons.
Not completely convinced myself about having an implement/focus for the Monk, especially considering the "internal" nature of Ki someone raised on another thread. As unarmed strike counts as a Weapon for any powers with that keyword, the best thing to do seemed to be to make it a viable option to do so.
The bonus to damage with unarmed strike was also to offset the likely lack of any magic weapon bonuses that the unarmed Monk would be unable to obtain. I was also considering the idea of adding the damage bonus in before multiplying the [W]: the Monk would have lower spikes in damage, but more consistant numbers.
Flurry of blows seems a bit strong as an encounter power. Sure you give up an at will but trading pushing a foe 2 squares versus an extra attack seems overpowered to me. Consider the paladin equivalent just adds his strength bonus to one attack per encounter and your adding 3 extra attacks at epic tier. I would suggest instead givng them 1/encounter a second attack, Dex vs. AC that does [w] but no modifier. This may eventually do less damage then the paladin equivalent but could be used on a separate target.
Adding an extra attack is also adding an extra chance to miss as well (at least, that was the thinking) and if they have picked up their extra defence bonus feats, using Flurry of Blows also means that they preclude themselves from gaining those bonuses as well.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 12:19PM
#19
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I don't think there's a real problem with two at-will powers foing to reflex instead of armor. I would use a DEX build and take the Staggering Blow and Nimble Blow at-will powers since they have reasonable to-hit and damage with speacial abilities. A DEX monk with crossbow/daggers/shirukens would be awesome.
- Grappling/Grabbing - I always used to love Grappling in 3.5, even when it didn't work out for me. I think there should be some powers that assist in grabbing or give some kind of grappling speacialty.
I was thinking of adding some in at some stages along the build path.
- Staggering Blow - I do question the wisdom of letting a level 1 character knock enemies off cliffs at will, but I love doing that so much. I guess wizards get Thunderstrike...
As I've said, I think I might have tried too much to emphasise the differences in powers between the Monk and the other Defenders in their At-Wills. I do think I'll be making some major adjustments in this area.
- Nimble Blow - I do not understand where the +1 attack bonus comes from.
Again, from trying too hard to emphasise differences. That will probably be changing.
- Dual Blows - I think maybe this should be switched with Staggering Blow as an at-will/encounter power. I also think that it should go to AC, not Ref.
Hmm, I'll give that some consideration, although whichever one ends up in the At-Will will probably end up being cut!
- Stunning Blow - Why doesn't Stunning Blow...stun?
Erm, because I need to learn to read the Conditions table a bit better? :P Think the name's more likely to change than give a Defender's Encounter power that Stun's.
- Interfering Blow - So the guy across the battlefield from me gets my dex bonus, even if his armor is better and he is not fighting the same enemy or standing anywhere near me?
The flavour was intended to be that, should the enemy attack your ally, with melee or ranged, you get "in their face" and spoil the shot.
- An Interrupting Blow/Grab would be cool.
I had some ideas for later powers that worked in that kind of way, again to synergise with the Threatening Shadow ability.
- Dailies - I think these are okay.
- Utilities - I like these.
Thank you. I am quite fond of some of the Utilities myself, and have some ideas for synergy with later powers.
- Mighty Throw - I want to use this to injur my oppenent, and the guy I threw him at. Okay, maybe that's too strong at third level, but it would be friggin cool.
Originally thought of for this power, but I also thought it would be over powered and so had planned to have further Throws at later levels that did just those sorts of things.
- Sweep the Legs - What no damage? Not even damage equal to my wisdom or strength modifier?
"Prone" seems to be quite a powerful status condition to apply against a target (especially with Rogues on the team) and the potential ability to do so to up to eight targets and do damage, however slight, seemed rather too powerful.
Thanks for all the input BoneLord!
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2 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2008 - 9:47PM
#20
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"Prone" seems to be quite a powerful status condition to apply against a target (especially with Rogues on the team) and the potential ability to do so to up to eight targets and do damage, however slight, seemed rather too powerful.
I guess you have a point there. I didn't think to multiply the 1 - 3 damage against up to 8 oppenents. And if they're all minions, then you just killed 8 guys by sweeping their legs out from under them. That would just be silly.
Anyways, thank you for replying to my reply. I like where this Monk is going. I just hope it keeps the Staggering Blow and Dual Blows. And I do understand dazing instead of stunning. I looked it up again myself and saw that stunning is more powerful than it used to be. Dazed is now what Stunned was in 3.5
Maybe at higher levels there should be a One-Shot K.O. power, or a Two-finger Gotcha! in the Eyes power. One to render an enemy unconcious (or stunned) until they save or take damage, and one to blind an oppenent for 1 round or until they save. Heh, you're probably working on that already.
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