Oh no no no, in NO way am I attempting to make them fluffier. Trust me on that. It's just a different perspective from the standard "servants of the B*tch Queen" point of view. My Drow are as ruthless and bloodthirsty as the rest, though since they are attempting to destroy the matriarchy, they've learned to be more subtle in their tactics, preferring the route of stealth/assassins/etc as opposed to all out warfare. There come a time however, when that point of view will go out the window as well, and open warfare will become their norm. They're just biding time and building resources until then.
Don't worry. I picked up on that from the get-go. Your portrayal synchs with Vhaeraun's and his church's style.
Also, not to nit-pick, but "The B___h Queen" is the title of the sea goddess Umberlee (canonically-speaking, of course).
"I don't like X, they should remove it." "I like X, they should keep it." "They should replace X with Y." "Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better." "Why don't they include both X and Y." "Yeah, everybody can be happy then!" "But I don't like X, they should remove it." "X really needs to be replaced with Y." "But they can include both X and Y." "But I don't like X, they need to remove it." "Remove X, I don't like it."
Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived.
Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up!
We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and....
One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to
D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.
Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison...
MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development.
TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment.
You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.
Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.
Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :|
I weep for this generation.
Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.
I swear I've seen Lolth referenced as the B_tch Queen as well somewhere, along with some other colorfully expletive names :P
Oh well, she's still a B_tch either way, lol!
Anyways, is there anything else you think I should add my friend? Did you review his new Rogue/Darklock stats? Let me know what you think of them. As I mentioned in a previous post, he's sort of a "priest" of Vhaeraun (which are usually cleric/rogues from what I've gathered, but instead of the deity's divine energy he uses Vhaeraun's eldritch power drawn through the Shadowfell. I could definitely use your help in fleshing the rest of things out, as far as the 'reincarnation' of Vhaeraun/The Shadowfell connection/etc, so help is always appreciated!
Oh no no no, in NO way am I attempting to make them fluffier. Trust me on that. It's just a different perspective from the standard "servants of the B*tch Queen" point of view. My Drow are as ruthless and bloodthirsty as the rest, though since they are attempting to destroy the matriarchy, they've learned to be more subtle in their tactics, preferring the route of stealth/assassins/etc as opposed to all out warfare. There come a time however, when that point of view will go out the window as well, and open warfare will become their norm. They're just biding time and building resources until then.
It wasn't the stealth or secrecy that gave me that feeling. Thats one of the things that I actually like in a good villian, or in this case, "evil" race. I think it was the conversion of the surface races that kind of caught me off guard. Not that i'm being critical, just giving you a point of view.
I think more than anything its my perception of Drow mentality. I think one of the best quotes describing it was in the War of the Spider Queen series, where Pharaun says something along the lines of - "I'm begining to think that we live at the bottom of a barrel full of vipers.", describing the other races and cities of the Underdark, and Quenthel replies - "If so, we're the quickest and most venomous viper in the barrel." or something to that effect. To me, Drow see the surface as a source of exotic goods, and easy raiding opportunities, not a place to conquer permanently.
Even my take on Vhaeruan's objectives there isn't outright conquest, merely a place to aquire power, so they can finally overthrow the Matriarchies, and rule the Underdark absolutely. The surface is just a place to aquire power to accomplish this. Again, thats just me.
It wasn't the stealth or secrecy that gave me that feeling. Thats one of the things that I actually like in a good villian, or in this case, "evil" race. I think it was the conversion of the surface races that kind of caught me off guard. Not that i'm being critical, just giving you a point of view.
I think more than anything its my perception of Drow mentality. I think one of the best quotes describing it was in the War of the Spider Queen series, where Pharaun says something along the lines of - "I'm begining to think that we live at the bottom of a barrel full of vipers.", describing the other races and cities of the Underdark, and Quenthel replies - "If so, we're the quickest and most venomous viper in the barrel." or something to that effect. To me, Drow see the surface as a source of exotic goods, and easy raiding opportunities, not a place to conquer permanently.
Even my take on Vhaeruan's objectives there isn't outright conquest, merely a place to aquire power, so they can finally overthrow the Matriarchies, and rule the Underdark absolutely. The surface is just a place to aquire power to accomplish this. Again, thats just me.
That's pretty much how I see them as well, I just thought the whole 'reclaiming their surface ties' thing seemed like a bigger goal as opposed to just conquering the Underdark, you know what I mean, like- why stop there when there's the World Above with a harvest waiting to be reaped?
That's pretty much how I see them as well, I just thought the whole 'reclaiming their surface ties' thing seemed like a bigger goal as opposed to just conquering the Underdark, you know what I mean, like- why stop there when there's the World Above with a harvest waiting to be reaped?
One of the most basic principles in running an empire is giving the general populace, especially the poor, a distraction or common enemy. In contemporary Drow society, its the Faerie elves, who most commoners believe drove them underground out of spite and jealousy, which isn't far from the truth if you consider the history of the Crown Wars, just not the whole truth.
Its basically a propaganda campaign. Make the surface out to be a world of horror, seared by the brilliance of the sun and moon, full of hostile races who have strange and powerful magic, ect. Keeps the general populace from revolting, and overthrowing you, especially in the early days after you're establishing yourselves, and are vulnerable. You're the guardians against the horrors of the surface, and they need you to keep them safe, kind of thing.
One of the most basic principles in running an empire is giving the general populace, especially the poor, a distraction or common enemy. In contemporary Drow society, its the Faerie elves, who most commoners believe drove them underground out of spite and jealousy, which isn't far from the truth if you consider the history of the Crown Wars, just not the whole truth.
Its basically a propaganda campaign. Make the surface out to be a world of horror, seared by the brilliance of the sun and moon, full of hostile races who have strange and powerful magic, ect. Keeps the general populace from revolting, and overthrowing you, especially in the early days after you're establishing yourselves, and are vulnerable. You're the guardians against the horrors of the surface, and they need you to keep them safe, kind of thing.
For me, most of the drow I deal with know the way the surface world is, and they view it with distaste as if it's 'below' their stature, but they realize it's got potential for trade/slaves/etc
Just keeping the thread alive so we can see how things turn out. Retooled him into a full rogue, for better options in the long term goal. Stuck between a PP though. I know Dagger Master is the best as far as damage potential, though Shadow Assassin fits in flavour terms as well. Haelirin has become an 'abolitionist' of sorts, turning on the former Slavers he profitted from in an attempt to 'break the chains' of oppression against races he seeks to profit from in other ways...if he could make a name for himself as a 'saviour,' then perhaps their gratitude could turn into a benefit when it would be at a better advantage for him to establish his House as a prominent figurehead withing the Drow society...
Just keeping the thread alive so we can see how things turn out. Retooled him into a full rogue, for better options in the long term goal. Stuck between a PP though. I know Dagger Master is the best as far as damage potential, though Shadow Assassin fits in flavour terms as well. Haelirin has become an 'abolitionist' of sorts, turning on the former Slavers he profitted from in an attempt to 'break the chains' of oppression against races he seeks to profit from in other ways...if he could make a name for himself as a 'saviour,' then perhaps their gratitude could turn into a benefit when it would be at a better advantage for him to establish his House as a prominent figurehead withing the Drow society...