Hello, my name is Zousha Omenohu and I'm a paladin junkie. I love paladins. I LOVE PALADINS! Ever since I first played Diablo II I've been in love with the idea of a holy warrior fighting for truth, justice and peace. But lately, I've noticed I might be liking them a bit too much. So far, paladins are the only 4e class I have ever played. When I look at the races, I don't judge them on their merits. I judge them based on whether they'd make a good paladin or not. I threw a fit when the information about devas was leaked, since they looked better equipped to be wizards than paladins. I drool over artifacts and magic items that seem tailor made for paladins. I get more and more irritable waiting for Divine Power to come out. I'm devoted to Tolkien, and his relatively infantile dichotomy of right and wrong.
Frankly, I'm starting to scare myself.
I think I might be too devoted to this class for my own good. A friend of mine is encouraging me to try playing an evil character for once, but I can't muster up the guts to even fill out a character sheet for an evil type. How do I wean myself from the straight and narrow, and play more varied, more morally ambiguous characters? It seems like all my characters these days are the same character in different costumes. And I feel like my paladin obsession is annoying my friends.
How do I wean myself from the straight and narrow, and play more varied, more morally ambiguous characters?
Hi, Zousha. There's no need to jump right from paladins to evil characters. That's way overcompensating. Do your friends like playing evil characters a lot?
I'd suggest playing a rogue, they lend themselves to being different characters well. If you insist on sticking to the righteous, than give your character a code, of sorts, just don't make it straight and narrow. Maybe he/she insists on being the manliest fighter around, or the ranger insists on keeping track of each and every kill.
It seems like all my characters these days are the same character in different costumes. And I feel like my paladin obsession is annoying my friends.
Plenty of us still have this problem; most of my archvillains are eerily similar, even after 6 years. Do you usually take very long to create a character brackground, or do you just wing it? Think of a few gritty, self-serving, badass (am I allowed to say that?) characters from movies, books, TV, and video games you like, and model your new character after them. Imagine how much fun it could be to do the wrong thing for a change, you might like it.
Or if that doesn't work, play a cleric, they can be close enough.
Hi, Zousha. There's no need to jump right from paladins to evil characters. That's way overcompensating. Do your friends like playing evil characters a lot?
No, not always. See, I mainly roleplay on a forum (the one linked to in my sig called The Respite), and we have a wide variety of roleplays there, not just D&D. I have a habit of playing goody-goody types overall that my friends are trying to get me to break simply to get me to try new things.
I'd suggest playing a rogue, they lend themselves to being different characters well. If you insist on sticking to the righteous, than give your character a code, of sorts, just don't make it straight and narrow. Maybe he/she insists on being the manliest fighter around, or the ranger insists on keeping track of each and every kill.
Again, it's not a matter of having a code. It's a matter of being a moral wuss. I don't handle gray morality well, and always try to be a goody-goody, much to the frustration of some of the other players, who seem to prefer moral ambiguity. For example, in a 4e roleplay that we have, I play a Good paladin of Pelor amidst a party consisting of:
An Unaligned rogue/warlock who is an ordained priestess of the Raven Queen and seems to have some deep-seated emotional issues involving her dark past and her inability to do anything but kill. She's the party leader.
An Unaligned rogue who grew up on the mean streets, surviving everything from gang violence to rape and murder. She thinks her dagger is her only friend and sometimes mutters things like "Blood is beautiful." And she's also my character's half-sister.
An Unaligned warforged fighter who doesn't really have much of a concern for civilian causalties. He charged a bunch of goblins holding a girl hostage, when my paladin wanted to bargain with them for the girl's release. They killed the girl in response and my paladin was furious. The warforged didn't seem to care.
An Unaligned wizard who seems to have no patience for foolishness or idiocy. For instance, she considered my paladin's anger at the girl's death to be stupid because it wasn't something he could stop, and yet he was blaming himself for it. And she also came at him with her flail once when he mentioned he'd forgotten to bring trail rations. She'd been having a bad day before then though, and she'd only just met the paladin.
Recently, we've met an Unaligned doppleganger (who poses as a human female) cleric of the Raven Queen who was the former lover of the rogue/warlock. Deciet is "her" middle name.
I'm kind of the odd-man-out.
Plenty of us still have this problem; most of my archvillains are eerily similar, even after 6 years. Do you usually take very long to create a character brackground, or do you just wing it? Think of a few gritty, self-serving, badass (am I allowed to say that?) characters from movies, books, TV, and video games you like, and model your new character after them. Imagine how much fun it could be to do the wrong thing for a change, you might like it.
I do generally just wing it. Most of my paladins tend to be orphans raised by some secluded church somewhere.
And as for some gritty characters to emulate, I don't know if I've watched enough of those kinds of things to have one. As I said, I tend to stick more towards Tolkienesque morality.
Or if that doesn't work, play a cleric, they can be close enough.
I think my fellow players would probably roll their eyes. They seem tired of me playing religious types too.
In my party there is a lawful good paladin who does not alway do the right thing, he gets hung up on honor alot and can be hyperjudgmental sometimes.
My character is a good Warlord who's sometimes a little too protective of his allies, becuase of some friends of his that died.
I once played a good rogue who was trying to make up for being a bandit in his youth
If your most comfortable at being good then stick to it, but non-grey morality can be interesting when combined with other grey elements:
throw in some overcoming the sins of the father, or make a githyanki wizard who sees the folly of his race's ways, or a once sinner now trying to get to heaven to meet up with a lost love, or make a Warlock who fights evil with evil (combine this with the last one), or is a race that has to hold back their primal nature
In 4rth pallys can be of any alignment, so i would think that its not so much as the class is the problem, but the alignemt that you force on them. (i remember previous threads about you and playing them all as lawful good and hateing that all dieties get pallys now, twas awhile ago but it stuck in my mind. im not trying to be mean or put words in your mouth, just saying what you had said).
If your looking for something that might fit your group yet steps away from being a defender and holy powers, i would say either an archery ranger or a warlock. Your group seems to have alot of physical characters so another ranged character might be of benifit.
As a ranger you could be an assasin who snipes from the rooftops and only cares about money. You could be a former archer in some military who was expelled for war crimes. You could just be a guy of the streets who grew up mastering a sling for protection. so on and so forth.
The warlock might be a problem if your freinds are getting tired of you and holy guys. Simply becuse you can play up your patron as a god or godling as such. Im a servent to the devils/elder gods/feywild/pelor... it all sounds the same.
I would argue to make an unaligned character or perhaps slightly evil. your group tends to favor those atleast.
OR you could be a pally of a chaotic evil diety like the orc god gruumesh or whatever. that alone should shake things up. you maim, kill, and pillage becuse its not only what you like to do but becuse your god demands it! you just have to play it as a controlable evil guy (8 int) so your party dosent expell you.
Holy and noble, dedicated to his god Oz, he would strong arm, or even kill people who denied Oz. Only to find out that Oz was a evil wizard, and was secretly taking his most devoted and using them for necromancy experiments, when he tried to tell the rest of his town they ran him out, burning his house, slaying the rest of his family, and doing everything to him that he did to others.
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way. Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken. Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken. King Fisher Does an excellent job at keeping an enemy disabled in a few ways. Strong. Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading. Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered. Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square. Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong. Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked. Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic. Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation. Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses. Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat. Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent. Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof. Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it. Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways. Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful. The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken. Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken Unnamed Avenger|Runepriest/Hammer of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered. Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5. Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong. Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight, only far more broken. Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken. Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.
Sounds to me like an issue of you preferring the lawful good alignment. I still see this as the norm for Paladins, though it has changed.
I would suggest that if you want to stick with the tolkienesque concepts of good and evil, then create a good character that is NOT lawful. Think Robinhood, does what he believes to be morally right, but not necessarily legally right. Defending the girl could be the ranger that takes the shot to kill the goblin holding the girl. You still want to save her because it's morally right, but are willing to kill him to do it. While the rest of the party fights the whole group, you do whatever it takes to save her. This could include moving to mark the guy holding her, pushing him or knocking him prone to free her. Healing her in the middle of the fight, using a daily power on her instead of party members.
They might start to care more about your point of view if it starts to effect how they fight too. If you always use dailies on the victims and damsels in distress, then they might try to help too, so you'll use your dailies on the party instead.
You could do this with any class really, but the key is to shift focus a little, not a lot. It sounds like you would never have fun with an evil character, but maybe a Warrior with a moral code, that is not lawful. To use the od alignment system as an example, if you're always Lawful Good, then try Neutral Good, still good, but neutral or uncaring about the local laws, especially if they violate your own moral code.
Remember, even Strider lived outside the law for his own purposes, but still believed in right and wrong.
I don't see a problem. Keep playing paladins and crusaders for good, don't let your friends lack of morals and poor character move you from your righteous path!
