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5 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2008 - 9:39AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2008
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Has anyone here ever seen "Dead Like Me?" While not exactly the same (in a lot of ways), I think the Raven Queen would be more concerned with the soul of the dead making its appointment, rather than the way the soul is freed from the body. Sometimes this is from a natural death, a bear mauling, a piano being dropped on your head...but when its your time, it's your time. If it is NOT your time or you "miss" your appt...well, there are consequences.
As far as deities, I think we're going to have to hope that Wizards did it so that the DMs could have free reign and connect the deities as they wish and not just leave a gaping hole where a book conveniently fits. Maybe you can make them all siblings, maybe they are are diametrically opposed to each other...I personally would have the Raven Queen and Pelor not hate each other: without life there is no death and vice versa. I would say that one sees the other as the other side of the coin.
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5 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2008 - 12:50PM
#12
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Date Joined:
Apr 20, 2007
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If it's a gaping hole where a book conveniently fits then they better fill it pretty damn quick. I play religious characters a lot and if I have no idea how a deity's church is structured and how members of it behave I have no guidelines for roleplaying and then I don't know if I'm doing it right.
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5 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2008 - 2:26PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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Once again, it's not as there's any shortage of material about Wee Jas.
So unless there's an explicit contradiction (such as some of the attitudes about undead) I think it's a safe assumption that all that still applies.
Even when the context has changed, It's pretty common sense, like humans who worship Corellon using the same rites as the elves previously have.
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5 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2008 - 7:05PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Nov 14, 2006
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I explain it as thus:
Upon Ioun's induction into the pantheon and the subsequent absorbing of Boccob's portfolio, WeeJas, tired of the negative press, absconded her magic portion and retreated into solitude for some time. Without a neutral presence in the art of necromancy, Nerull and Vecna began to fight for the right to control souls. Upon her return, Wee Jas came and saw the horrors the two had wreaked upon the material plane and destroyed Nerull (vecna having narrowly escaped by appealing to Wee Jas ideals of knowledge, thereby cementing himself as a sort of peer of hers (if only for a very short time)), absorbing his essence. Henceforth, she became the new goddess of death and changed her name to better suit her new position.
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5 years ago ::
Dec 04, 2008 - 8:22PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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I like that, and I may steal it. I always pictured Orcus breaking Nerull across his knee, since he's now impervious to death.
But as per the OP's question, The Raven Queen's temples borrow heavily from previous Wee Jas canon, I'm guessing?
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5 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2008 - 4:20PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2008
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I didn't play 3rd Edition (not much anyway) and don't have access to any Wee Jas canon. So if I was playing a Wee Jas Priest, would I ask people to raise me from the dead if I'm slain or not? Would I attack undead on sight or not? Would I discourage others from being raised and consider the raise dead ritual to be blasphemy against my god...or not?
Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.
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5 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2008 - 4:27PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2008
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Has anyone here ever seen "Dead Like Me?" While not exactly the same (in a lot of ways), I think the Raven Queen would be more concerned with the soul of the dead making its appointment, rather than the way the soul is freed from the body. Sometimes this is from a natural death, a bear mauling, a piano being dropped on your head...but when its your time, it's your time. If it is NOT your time or you "miss" your appt...well, there are consequences.
As far as deities, I think we're going to have to hope that Wizards did it so that the DMs could have free reign and connect the deities as they wish and not just leave a gaping hole where a book conveniently fits. Maybe you can make them all siblings, maybe they are are diametrically opposed to each other...I personally would have the Raven Queen and Pelor not hate each other: without life there is no death and vice versa. I would say that one sees the other as the other side of the coin.
I have not seen "Dead like Me" but I will add it to my rent list...thanks!
So based on the movie interpretation, how would the Raven Queen feel about one of her Paladins being slain in a valiant battle against the undead forces of Orcus and then being raised back to life (after he had already stepped off the holy road to the unknown) by a Priest of say...Pelor? Is that cool with her, because it's not necromancy just restoring life for a time....or is she massively annoyed because her servant's soul was just torn back onto the holy road...pure blasphemy against her tenets?
I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I honestly don't have much of a preference for the answer to that question, other than if I tell my Raven Queen worshipping PCs that they can't ask for people to raise them and even actively seek to stop others from raising the dead, then that is a significant handicap and I'll have to modify the game accordingly to account for that weakness.
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5 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2008 - 4:42PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2008
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I have not seen "Dead like Me" but I will add it to my rent list...thanks!
So based on the movie interpretation, how would the Raven Queen feel about one of her Paladins being slain in a valiant battle against the undead forces of Orcus and then being raised back to life (after he had already stepped off the holy road to the unknown) by a Priest of say...Pelor? Is that cool with her, because it's not necromancy just restoring life for a time....or is she massively annoyed because her servant's soul was just torn back onto the holy road...pure blasphemy against her tenets?
I honestly don't know the answer to that question. I honestly don't have much of a preference for the answer to that question, other than if I tell my Raven Queen worshipping PCs that they can't ask for people to raise them and even actively seek to stop others from raising the dead, then that is a significant handicap and I'll have to modify the game accordingly to account for that weakness.
If I have gotten one person to watch "Dead Like Me," then my work here is done.
I feel like it goes back to the appt thing. If it is your time to die, it is your time to die. If it is not and you do die, I feel like that would cause a stir in the cosmos as well. When someone is being raised, they know that they are being summoned and can refuse. The ritual being done does not guarantee a restored comrade, and in addition to this the gods can intervene. This can make for a good RP session of the dead comrade talking with a representative of their god; maybe they are told it is not their time and that they should go back. Hell, maybe it is their time to die and they decide for the greater good, they will take on whatever the Raven Queen throws at them. The Priest of Pelor can try to bring the fallen person back. The person can refuse, the Raven Queen would still have her soul and the priest will hopefully have learned their lesson.
PS: Dead Like Me is a tv show. Definitely worth watching. And this thread has my brain brewing in regards to a paladin of the Raven Queen...too many ideas, not enough games...*sigh*
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5 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2008 - 5:12PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jul 24, 2008
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too many ideas, not enough games...*sigh*
A more truthful statement has not been uttered 
Thanks for the ideas. I have been toying with the idea myself that perhaps mortals don't really understand what the gods rules are as it pertains to the raising of the dead. Perhaps it is a ritual that frequently doesn't work because the only souls that the Raven Queen will release back to the holy road are those that she deems have not achieved their fate or something like that. This would have the added benefit of solving one of my other problems...that being why noble rulers ever die and get replaced. With Raise Dead around, why even worry about falling battle? As long as your troops can get you back to your priest, they will raise you. But if this is dependent upon the Raven Queen (and/or other gods) determination that your worthy, then suddenly death is real again and NPCs wouldn't rely upon it?
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5 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2008 - 9:32PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2007
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A more truthful statement has not been uttered
Thanks for the ideas. I have been toying with the idea myself that perhaps mortals don't really understand what the gods rules are as it pertains to the raising of the dead. Perhaps it is a ritual that frequently doesn't work because the only souls that the Raven Queen will release back to the holy road are those that she deems have not achieved their fate or something like that. This would have the added benefit of solving one of my other problems...that being why noble rulers ever die and get replaced. With Raise Dead around, why even worry about falling battle? As long as your troops can get you back to your priest, they will raise you. But if this is dependent upon the Raven Queen (and/or other gods) determination that your worthy, then suddenly death is real again and NPCs wouldn't rely upon it?
Im this is how i've played it since the early days of 3e when i started DM'ing.
As for the Raven Queen's Tenets....
Nobody knows. It depends on which follower of hers you ask. Like in the real world, nobodys sure what the gods' commands actually are, and there might be a thousand different forms of Raven Queen worship, and a thousand different interpretations of her commands to go with them. One church might condemn Raise Dead as unholy, while another might task its followers to keep the innocent (particularly children) from dying by any means necessary, and thus preventing them from dying before their time. Depends on the church.
Theological schisms are pretty common in any faith. No reason D&D should be any different.
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