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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 4:42AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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Charisma represents force of personality, but it doesn't have to be the kind of force of personality which makes everyone like you - an overbearing person has a high Cha too, but they're not likely to be all that popular because of it. That's the sort of Charisma that tieflings have.
Ever seen the Britcom "Keeping Up Appearances"? Hyacinth Bucket is a perfect example of a high Charisma, unlikeable person.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 5:15AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 10, 2008
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Digressing a moment to stats for Tieflings, remember that they are fleshed out by more than just their attribute bonuses. Warlocks, and I guess infernal warlocks, are linked to devils, and devils pride themselves in scheming, lying, and manipulating. So while their attacks might be based off of con, alot of their other skills, especially social, are dependant on charisma. So, that +2 bluff you got, speaks to infernal more than any other. And +2 stealth is good for any warlock once you get shadow walk from out of the darkness or some area. Btw, take a look at the feat hellfire blood, +1 attack and damage (untyped I believe) to all powers with fire or fear keyword. There's a perfect representation of infernal blood.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 6:07AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Oct 19, 2006
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Speculation Post
The reason they're better at the fey pact is because over the generations they've actively tried not to be good at the infernal pact. It's bad for business to constantly be associated with devils. Tends to make people a little prejudiced against you. Thus, they've stepped away from it as a species, and have fallen out of practice. The tieflings of old probably did have +2 Con, +2 Int, but that was back when they either embraced their infernal heritage more often, or it was simply more newly granted, so was more prevalent. They've tried hard over the generations to become better accepted, so pushed away their infernal heritage and worked on being more personable.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 7:41AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Apr 19, 2008
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Who says that Tieflings are bad at being Infernal Warlocks? They can easily pick up Hellfire Blood to make up the attack bonus difference for a significant number of Infernal Pact powers.
Str 12
Con 16
Dex 8
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 18
That's a very reasonable stat array for a Tiefling Infernal Pact Warlock. They can select freely from the Charisma-based attack powers and they'll be just as good at using many of the Infernal Pact powers. That freedom to select powers regardless of the attack attribute is a major bonus at the moment, because Warlock power selection isn't what it should be when you restrict yourself to just one attack stat.
The Warlock above will also qualify for Chain/Scale as soon as they hit paragon tier, when their AC is starting to drop off.
D&D rules were never meant to exist without the presence of a DM. RAW is a lie.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 1:36PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2006
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Why would not having 20 Constitution be a deal-breaker? I mean, it's not even a negative modifier. People didn't avoid elven warriors in third edition because of -2 to Constitution.
Because elves didn't use Constitution for attack rolls.
Faiwy? I'm just stepping into 4E now, so would that be a joke referring to an Infernal Warlock?
Yes, I'm talking smack about fey warlocks. It wouldn't be hard for me to stomach, if, say... ELADRIN made ideal feylocks, or elves, or something. But I kinda expected tieflings to make good infernal warlocks, eladrin to make good fey warlocks, and I expect kobolds to make good sorcerers and dragonpact warlocks, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'd play a tiefling paladin (lawl), warlord or wizard, not so much an infernalist.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 3:21PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2006
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dragonpact warlocks[/quote]
This is the best ever. WotC, are you paying attention?! This man just won at having ideas you should be marketing.
Level 29 daily: summon dracolich?! (although summons so far are pretty restricted, I think your final attack power having a happy little list of fun things to do with it is pretty reasonable)
also, I quit this thread. There's a fair amount of opinions on both sides of the issue, so I guess it's not worth fighting over. I'll just homebrew for myself.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 6:57PM
#17
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I didn't realize that the flavor of a race (what classes they favor) had to be reflected in the stat bonuses given. Is this something new?
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. --George Orwell There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. --Howard Zinn He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster. --Friedrich Nietzsche 
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 8:11PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Nov 14, 2005
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I suppose +2 con, +2 int wouldn't be unreasonable. At least... I can't think of any objections to it as a house rule, other than, for instance, "you're not the DM and the DM doesn't like it."
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 8:42PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Apr 27, 2008
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Because elves didn't use Constitution for attack rolls.
Fair enough. So maybe gnome monks would be a better example. Gnome monks, by the way, are awesome. Anyway, my point is that not having a bonus (but not having a penalty either) is no reason to avoid a character (especially since Charisma is good for stuff like diplomacy). I will type this in all lowercase letters here, and then go take out my undying rage at character optimization people on some virtual enemies: you do not have to have the maximum possible chance to hit somebody in order to have a solid character. Even now that DnD is a video game.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 08, 2008 - 8:53PM
#20
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Even now that DnD is a video game.
It is? Where is the CD? I didn't get one with my books. Damn, I'll have to complain to WotC.
People sleep peacefully in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. --George Orwell There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people. --Howard Zinn He who fights with monsters must take care lest he thereby become a monster. --Friedrich Nietzsche
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