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Switch to Forum Live View Why is The Raven Queen so popular?
4 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2008 - 7:01AM #241
Dragoncat
  • Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
Date Joined: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 1,727
An easier way to phrase that, Ravenharm?


The Raven Queen is associated with fate as well as death. And sometimes, it just isn't someone's time to die. So the cleric that heals or resurrects is trying to set things back on track, as Her Will demands.

After all, if one of them nasty Orcus zealots kills the rogue, and the rogue was needed to break into the high priest of Orcus's chamber in order to deliver unto him a swift smiting unto the crotch, then we need the rogue back. He'll return to the Raven Queen's grasp in good time. She's patient.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2008 - 8:02AM #242
Duskweaver
Date Joined: Jun 9, 2008
Posts: 3,633
My take on this whole healing/raising business is that the RQ is perfectly fine with people delaying the inevitable (especially if they have a purpose to fulfil). It's when someone denies that death is inevitable that she gets annoyed, because that's hubris.

As Dragoncat said, she's patient. But you will go to her eventually.

Oh, also see PHB pages 296-7: that's pretty unambiguously a cleric of the RQ casting Raise Dead.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2008 - 12:11PM #243
The_Storyteller
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2008
Posts: 149
RQ popularity is due to...

a) The 4e project was named Orcus Project (or project orcus, I don't remember). Orcus' greatest enemy is RQ. The RQ is some sort of default deity of 4e. She has the most complete (best if you want) background of all deities. It's evident: WotC give much more attention to RQ than the other deities. Why? 1) As I already said, she is the default deity/enemy of Orcus; 2) her symbol appears the most, see the standard cleric artwork at PHB p.60 for example (this is subliminal).

b) There is a lot of people with low self esteem in the world right now (more than 50% of them are geeks, and more of 50% of the geeks play DnD). Another evidence is that more than 50% of the characters reflect the psyche of the dnd players that made them roleplay in some way (like a form of letting your subconscious free). We all know that confidant, happy, and fulfilled person would never worship the RQ. If everyone that plays DnD where like this than the RQ would be the less worshiped deity. If you have a hot girlfriend, have a good cause to fight, are powerful and confident that you will succeed, have a lot of friends that really loves you, its is more likely that you worship a good deity. All other deities would appear selfish to you, as if they don't need your help.

Imagine a fulfilled and confident guy running to the battlefield and than someone beside him mentions the RQ. The confident guy simply says: "Forget her! Right now she is in a sinister castle only waiting for me, you, and everyone else to die. Someday you will make her happy dying the way you must die, this is just enough for her. Let us fight for the ones that really need our help. Let us fight as immortals that will live forever in happiness for what we believe."
The happy and good person never wants to see the RQ. She's not evil, so he just respects her. But he gains nothing from her. When you want to be happy you want to live forever, and the death is the last thing you think about.

Kill undead because they want to kill you and the people you love. This is enough. If Orcus wants to take her down (and everyone else), TAKE ORCUS DOWN. This is enough.

Death? Forget it. You will die and death will forget you.

If another PC doesn’t like you for being a zealous good aligned PC, forget them and pray for them to forget you.

Praise to all the good gods. They offer to you what you need to have... an interesting existence to be remembered for eternity (not only in real life but in dnd as well).
Adventure -> Avandra,
Self-purpose -> Bahamut,
Strong Will/Heart -> Moradin,
Be a source of happiness -> Pelor,
Fight Evil (all dnd monsters) and be a hero -> all good deities.

They will never forget you.
Be happy and have fun.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2008 - 3:00PM #244
ravenharm
Date Joined: May 20, 2007
Posts: 405
thanks for the help dragoncat, english isn't the first language.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 19, 2008 - 6:43PM #245
Radagast
Date Joined: Jun 8, 2001
Posts: 32
In my case, it was simple:

Raven Queen's Blessing, the Divinity Feat linked to worship of the Raven Queen, is simple to use and powerful since it is another way to heal. Since my cleric was my first 4th Edition character, it seemed logical to go with more healing ability since nobody in the group really knew what we were doing with the new edition yet.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 12:42AM #246
ORC_Paradox
  • There/Not There
Date Joined: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 900
I have removed content from this thread because vulgarity is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 5:20PM #247
BKrueg
Date Joined: Jun 4, 2008
Posts: 14

The_Storyteller wrote:

b) There is a lot of people with low self esteem in the world right now (more than 50% of them are geeks, and more of 50% of the geeks play DnD). Another evidence is that more than 50% of the characters reflect the psyche of the dnd players that made them roleplay in some way (like a form of letting your subconscious free). We all know that confidant, happy, and fulfilled person would never worship the RQ. If everyone that plays DnD where like this than the RQ would be the less worshiped deity. If you have a hot girlfriend, have a good cause to fight, are powerful and confident that you will succeed, have a lot of friends that really loves you, its is more likely that you worship a good deity. All other deities would appear selfish to you, as if they don't need your help.


That is a really strong claim to make. You're making some major assumptions on people's motivations and the motivations of their characters.

Imagine a fulfilled and confident guy running to the battlefield and than someone beside him mentions the RQ. The confident guy simply says: "Forget her! Right now she is in a sinister castle only waiting for me, you, and everyone else to die. Someday you will make her happy dying the way you must die, this is just enough for her. Let us fight for the ones that really need our help. Let us fight as immortals that will live forever in happiness for what we believe."
The happy and good person never wants to see the RQ. She's not evil, so he just respects her. But he gains nothing from her. When you want to be happy you want to live forever, and the death is the last thing you think about.

Kill undead because they want to kill you and the people you love. This is enough. If Orcus wants to take her down (and everyone else), TAKE ORCUS DOWN. This is enough.

Death? Forget it. You will die and death will forget you.

If another PC doesn’t like you for being a zealous good aligned PC, forget them and pray for them to forget you.


You're saying a holier-than-thou character who blatantly goes against the other characters is preferable to one who say accepts the inevitability of death and seeks to do great things in the short time given to them? If we all fought like we were immortal then there wouldn't be many heroes left. :P

That's how I justify my character following the Raven Queen. He understands that he is mortal and subject to a final death at some point. He's the grim hero who accepts the inevitability of death, and becomes all the stronger for it. Also, the symbol of his house is the raven and his last name was raven translated into Latin (a coincidence since he predates 4e by two years). Her hatred of the undead fit in with my ideas for his backstory.

Praise to all the good gods. They offer to you what you need to have... an interesting existence to be remembered for eternity (not only in real life but in dnd as well).


What?

Adventure -> Avandra,
Self-purpose -> Bahamut,
Strong Will/Heart -> Moradin,
Be a source of happiness -> Pelor,
Fight Evil (all dnd monsters) and be a hero -> all good deities.

They will never forget you.
Be happy and have fun.


Not everyone wants to follow a good god. There is a refreshing moral complexity that can be reached within the Unaligned shade of the Alignment spectrum beyond angsty death-cultist or emo. Plus we can get away with playing multiple sides of a conflict against each other and reaping the benefits.

Shades of gray exist in the world. A hero doesn't have to conform to any of the Good gods to be a real hero. In other words, a follower of the Raven Queen is just as much a hero as the follower of a Good god.

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 10:04PM #248
Undrave
Date Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Posts: 4,743
I like Sehanine myself. I like to emphasize the 'love' part.

The PHB state that she has 'ties' to Corellon and Melora... I interpret this to say she swings both ways :p Sehanine loves EVERYONE.

Zousha_Omenohu wrote:

I'll admit, yes, I was looking for some scathing social commentary. I honestly prefer Superman to Batman.

I'm that naive, wide-eyed type who'd rather believe that there are inherently good people in this world and that the world isn't a big, scary place where everyone is merely sizing you up to rob you, brutalize you, rape you, kill you and cannibalize your remains.

I always believed that the reason paladins caused interparty turmoil was because the other PCs were looking to do bad things (like the party rogue deciding to wander around the tavern picking everyone's pocket ).

I'm a bleeding heart that can't stomach doing evil things. I've only played Light Side in KOTOR, Good in Fable, and Paladins in Neverwinter Nights. I can't take evil options when I play games that offer moral choices because I'll always be feeling guilty after the fact.

As such, it frustrates me to no end that society has deemed the goody-goody weak, instead replaced with morally bankrupt heroes who either are emotionless or go through annoyingly bad angst and villains who are so evil and disgusting they make you puke.

I confess I prefer fairy tales to more modern fantasy. There at least there's a clear cut sense of right and wrong, good always triumphs in the end and everyone lives happily ever after at the end.

I don't like the Raven Queen because it feels like she was made to pander to those players who want to play a paladin and still do bad things. Paladins in 3e were Lawful Good for a reason.


If your not a 'japanophobes' I highly recommend the Saint Seiya franchise where heroes stick to their belief no matter what and fight for justice. Megumu Okada's Episode G featuring the shining Gold Saint of Athena, Leo Aiolia, is a bit weird in terms of style (even the manly men are girly :p) but its filled with unwavering heroes in shining armor with steel clad convictions fighting against incredible odds (in this case the legendary Titans of greek mythology) to protect what they believe in.

Mar 24, 2010 -- 9:35AM, Mcnancy wrote:

I love Horseshoecrabfolk.

What I love most about them is that they seem to be the one thing that we all can agree on.


See for yourself, click here!

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 20, 2008 - 11:51PM #249
Zousha_Omenohu
Date Joined: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 2,146
I'll look into it if I can find the time. I don't watch a lot of TV, and I've rarely, if at all, followed a show through to its completion. I mostly watch movies, and those are relatively rare these days.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 21, 2008 - 3:56PM #250
Kobold_Avenger
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: May 14, 2006
Posts: 469
The reason paladins caused problesm in parties is because they were often expected to be roleplayed as incompedent morons. Their code made made certain types of adventures impossible. The Paladin'ss code was also sometimes used as in excuse to control other player's behavior. There was no reason why paladins should have only been LG, why not NG or CG? Are they somehow less good? Shouldn't neutral goods have their own holy warriors like a paladin? Did Evil god's really need a prestige class for thier unholy warriors?
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