I'm thinking of making a Tiefling Rogue, my question, concerns the tail. It says they have a 4-5 foot long nonprehensile tail. So I'm assuming they wouldn't be able to strap a dagger to the end of their tail, and attack with it, due to lack of control to that extent, but they would be able to move it and unsheath it?
I'm thinking of making a Tiefling Rogue, my question, concerns the tail. It says they have a 4-5 foot long nonprehensile tail. So I'm assuming they wouldn't be able to strap a dagger to the end of their tail, and attack with it, due to lack of contro
The key word is nonprehensile. It's more like a lizard's than a monkey's. So I don't think they'd be able to do anything as complicated as sheathing a dagger.
The key word is nonprehensile. It's more like a lizard's than a monkey's. So I don't think they'd be able to do anything as complicated as sheathing a dagger.
Ah, I was wondering because in the Monster Manual, there is a picture of a tiefling under "Tiefling" with a dagger on its tail. It also shows a prehensile tail in my eyes. Would the tiefling atleast be able to flick the tail upwards to unsheath the dagger though? The thing I'm wondering, is having the shortsword on his waist sheathed, and 5 daggers in various locations, with the one on the tail as well.
If possible, I was thinking it would be possible to whip the dagger around, either to attack with it or draw it.
Ah, I was wondering because in the Monster Manual, there is a picture of a tiefling under "Tiefling" with a dagger on its tail. It also shows a prehensile tail in my eyes. Would the tiefling atleast be able to flick the tail upwards to unsheath the d
The tail would be a fine place to strap a dagger, but you wouldn't be able to attack with it. From the description in the PHB, you'd lack the necessary motor control (and probably the strength).
The tail would be a fine place to strap a dagger, but you wouldn't be able to attack with it. From the description in the PHB, you'd lack the necessary motor control (and probably the strength).
Alright thanks. Atleast that is one plan I can use, heh. Possibly walk up into non-hostile territory, sneak my tail up my cloak, grab the dagger, and get a surprise sneak attack.... Would be interesting :D
Alright thanks. Atleast that is one plan I can use, heh. Possibly walk up into non-hostile territory, sneak my tail up my cloak, grab the dagger, and get a surprise sneak attack.... Would be interesting :D
Hmm...well, bend me over and call me Cheney...the Tiefling in the MM actually DOES have a weapon-like blade strapped to its tail! I never noticed that. It looks like something specifically crafted for use by a tail, also. Seems like the artists didn't get the memo on nonprehensile. I'd go with the rules and disregard the art as just another picture that's too cool for the rules.
Hmm...or perhaps they're planning a feat later that would allow tail-weapon use?
Nah...it's just art.
Hmm...well, bend me over and call me Cheney...the Tiefling in the MM actually DOES have a weapon-like blade strapped to its tail! I never noticed that. It looks like something specifically crafted for use by a tail, also. Seems like the artists di
Non-prehensile. This means that the tail can not be used to grasp anything. Grip, grab, take, hold; are all options not allowed. However, I would suggest that the art in the MM is not a far stretch; as an item strapped to the tail is none of the above.
I guess one only has to write up a basic tail slash, or whatever you would want to call it. It may not be in the rules, but that is what house rules are for.
Cheers!!
Non-prehensile. This means that the tail can not be used to grasp anything. Grip, grab, take, hold; are all options not allowed. However, I would suggest that the art in the MM is not a far stretch; as an item strapped to the tail is none of the
I see, I thought a nonprehensile tail you do not have complete control to a certain extent over as well. But as someone said earlier, I'm not sure one would have the strength to do significant damage. That or they could just do base damage, without strength added in.
I see, I thought a nonprehensile tail you do not have complete control to a certain extent over as well. But as someone said earlier, I'm not sure one would have the strength to do significant damage. That or they could just do base damage, without s
It should be noted that some groups in the ancient world used to grow ponytails and plait hair so that daggers and spikes could be tied to the ends and used as weapons.
I could see a Tiefling doing a similar thing, so that if he spins at velocity, the tail-weapon whips up and strikes the legs of his opponent...
It'd probably be strapped to the tail using leather buckles or something, though...
It should be noted that some groups in the ancient world used to grow ponytails and plait hair so that daggers and spikes could be tied to the ends and used as weapons.I could see a Tiefling doing a similar thing, so that if he spins at velocity, the
That Tiefling also makes an appearance in Dragon. At the very least, his tail blade discourages children from playfully grabbing it. As they are wont to do with tails.
That Tiefling also makes an appearance in Dragon. At the very least, his tail blade discourages children from playfully grabbing it. As they are wont to do with tails.
Didn't think of it from spinning to lash at their tail. How would you view that attack? Just the 1d4 or if it was a SA 1d4+2d8, subtracting str or dex though to damage?
Didn't think of it from spinning to lash at their tail. How would you view that attack? Just the 1d4 or if it was a SA 1d4+2d8, subtracting str or dex though to damage?
Non-prehensile pretty much means that it cannot grab/hold something esp. by curling around it.
So strapping a weapon to a tail wouldn't disallow it from being used to attack - you just can't hold anything with the tail.
Non-prehensile pretty much means that it cannot grab/hold something esp. by curling around it.So strapping a weapon to a tail wouldn't disallow it from being used to attack - you just can't hold anything with the tail.
What about swimming? Would the tail be useful for swimming? The art for TFD shows the tail to have a fair amount of strength mobility and not something that just drags behind the tiefling. What would people think about the tail aiding in swimming or perhaps as a trip device?
What about swimming? Would the tail be useful for swimming? The art for TFD shows the tail to have a fair amount of strength mobility and not something that just drags behind the tiefling. What would people think about the tail aiding in swimming
What about swimming? Would the tail be useful for swimming? The art for TFD shows the tail to have a fair amount of strength mobility and not something that just drags behind the tiefling. What would people think about the tail aiding in swimming or perhaps as a trip device?
Given that the tails are typically depicted as tapering down to very narrow points at the end, I'd say that they'd be fairly useless for swimming. As for tripping, maybe or maybe not, depends on how flexible they are.
One thing they would be good for, however, is balance. Whether tightrope walking or trying to make a sharp turn while running, a tielfing's tail would definitely come in handy.
Given that the tails are typically depicted as tapering down to very narrow points at the end, I'd say that they'd be fairly useless for swimming. As for tripping, maybe or maybe not, depends on how flexible they are.One thing they would be good for
Ah, I was wondering because in the Monster Manual, there is a picture of a tiefling under "Tiefling" with a dagger on its tail. It also shows a prehensile tail in my eyes. Would the tiefling atleast be able to flick the tail upwards to unsheath the dagger though? The thing I'm wondering, is having the shortsword on his waist sheathed, and 5 daggers in various locations, with the one on the tail as well.
If possible, I was thinking it would be possible to whip the dagger around, either to attack with it or draw it.
You need to understand that artists are hired to DRAW, not to know the rules. Thus the artist has no idea that tiefling don't have prehensile tails. Case in point I talked to a guy who drew the cyborg ninja in one of the Cyberpunk books and I wanted to know what cyberware the guy had on him. The artist had NO clue. He said he was told to draw a cyborg ninja and that's what he came up with. You CANNOT take the artwork as cannon. It's eye candy. That's it.
You need to understand that artists are hired to DRAW, not to know the rules. Thus the artist has no idea that tiefling don't have prehensile tails. Case in point I talked to a guy who drew the cyborg ninja in one of the Cyberpunk books and I wanted
If we were to analyze this biologically we would look at modern analogs. There are many animals that use their non-prehensile tails to attack, mostly out of defense. This is most commonly seen in lizards like iguanas, monitors and even crocodillians. There are dinosaurs that display this ability as well; ankylosaurus, stegosaurus, although these behaviors are speculated from comparison to modern analogs much like what we're doing with the tiefling. The difference between these and a tiefling is that these animals have scaly skin which behaves much like armor, protecting the soft flesh. Due to the non-prehensile nature of the tieflings tail, not only would a blade have to be attached but additionally, the attack would have to be made, in my opinion (you are allowed to disagree), by pivoting on his/her feet to fling his/her tail around much like a headbanger flings his hair at a rock concert. I'm trying to come-up with a mammal that uses its tail to attack and so far I can't think of anything. You would also have to be aware that flinging a tail with a weight attached to the end and then smashing it into a solid object could cause not only a great deal of pain to the tail owner but could likely break it. I bet a broken tail is rather painful. This could be good rationale for this not being considered a legitimate attack in the first place. My dogs certainly don't seem to have too much feeling in their tail though when they are wagging it so hard it's constantly smacking the door. Only a broad, thick tail would be useful for swimming so I would rule that out. I will agree with the balance idea and add another one. Cheetahs use their tails like a rudder. By directing its location they can counterbalance their own weight allowing them to change direction quickly while pursuing prey. Unfortunately, this requires a very long tail (at least again the length of their body) with good muscle control, coordination and flexibility (but in no way prehensile). I'd be interested in tying various weights to the tails of several animals to see what the effect is on their tail's mobility, all in the name of SCIENCE. You can participate in your own home with your pets.
If we were to analyze this biologically we would look at modern analogs. There are many animals that use their non-prehensile tails to attack, mostly out of defense. This is most commonly seen in lizards like iguanas, monitors and even crocodillian
The spike on the tail may just be so others don't grab it.
Or, it could be a status marker amongst tieflings, if they can afford so many swords that they can put some on their tail, showing off how much money they have.
The spike on the tail may just be so others don't grab it.Or, it could be a status marker amongst tieflings, if they can afford so many swords that they can put some on their tail, showing off how much money they have.
The spike on the tail may just be so others don't grab it.
Or, it could be a status marker amongst tieflings, if they can afford so many swords that they can put some on their tail, showing off how much money they have.
That's a pretty cool idea, actually. Tiefling tail decorations as indications of rank.
Oh, and the Canadian Porcupine and extinct armadillo-like Doedicurus are two species of mammals that used their tails as weapons. The Porcupine, of course, is cover with quills that stick into the flesh of attackers, while the Doedicurus had a massive bone club at the end of its tail, similar to an Ankylosaur's.
That's a pretty cool idea, actually. Tiefling tail decorations as indications of rank.Oh, and the Canadian Porcupine and extinct armadillo-like Doedicurus are two species of mammals that used their tails as weapons. The Porcupine, of course, is cov
I think that the +2 to stealth should instead have been a +2 to acrobatics, since being stealthy when a four-to-five foot piece of your anatomy needs to be hidden as well, but would certainly help in balance.
My Tiefling keeps her waterskin and a dagger strapped about half a foot down her tail. If you imagine drawing from that position, it's surprisingly natural. Beyond that, though, I don't see it having too many uses, other than smacking annoying companions.
I think that the +2 to stealth should instead have been a +2 to acrobatics, since being stealthy when a four-to-five foot piece of your anatomy needs to be hidden as well, but would certainly help in balance. My Tiefling keeps her waterskin and a dag
There's a good reason tieflings don't all make tail attacks - it's impractical. Unless the player made some concession to the need to undergo extensive training in attacking with the tail (like paying for it with an at will slot) I'd probably work the rules out so that it was a better idea to use some other limb in almost every circumstance if I was the DM. If the player did make such a concession, I'd probably make it require custom weapons, allow it to be used against opponents in the character's rear quadrant and flanks, and do 1(W) +STR, or 1(W) with a small chance of knockdown. The weapon itself would have to be pretty heavy, since odds are the attack would have to rely on force to deal its damage.
Maybe that's just me being an old grouch because I've had one too many player try to pass off a nonhuman character to get free attacks with the extra bits. I have to think, though, that if the developers wanted to allow tieflings to use their tails in combat they'd have put in rules to balance it against other racial abilities.
There's a good reason tieflings don't all make tail attacks - it's impractical. Unless the player made some concession to the need to undergo extensive training in attacking with the tail (like paying for it with an at will slot) I'd probably work t
Tiefling's tails are just a hold-over from their ancestors' demonic shenanigans, and serve no useful purpose. It's just another cool-looking accessory that's slightly less useful than their shiny leather belt or their embroidered silk cloak.
On a bipedal, upright humanoid frame, a tail wouldn't help with balance, and would actually cause them to have to lean forward slightly to balance the weight of the tail. Standing upright, a bipedal humanoid lacks the proper physiology to effectively manage a spinning tail slap with any real force, or to effectively trip someone in combat. A non-prehensile tail wouldn't be able to do much more than hold itself slightly off the ground so it doesn't drag in the mud... At best, a tiefling could hold it close to their leg so that no one steps on it.
However, as was previously mentioned, an enterprising player could strap smaller pouches or gear to the upper part of their tail for extra carrying space. It would certainly make a convenient place to carry a couple extra quivers of arrows.
Tiefling's tails are just a hold-over from their ancestors' demonic shenanigans, and serve no useful purpose. It's just another cool-looking accessory that's slightly less useful than their shiny leather belt or their embroidered silk cloak. On a b
so when do i grow full-time wings and get my pitchfork heavy laden with babies?.....ok, more serious, the MMALWAYS has the NPC versions of the races a bit more "perfected" than the PC versions for control issues. I think eventually there will be feats for both dragonborn and tiefling to take advantage of an aspect of their anatomy, be it a dragonborn finally capable of growing the wings his brethern have on page 87, or the tiefling gaining the ability to use his tail for an attack, in my game flavor reins supreme as long as it is realiztic for the game, so yeah, ask your dm if in your gam the tail can be used or is it about as useful as a salamander tail.....
so when do i grow full-time wings and get my pitchfork heavy laden with babies?.....ok, more serious, the MMALWAYS has the NPC versions of the races a bit more "perfected" than the PC versions for control issues. I think eventually there will be fea
so when do i grow full-time wings and get my pitchfork heavy laden with babies?.....ok, more serious, the MMALWAYS has the NPC versions of the races a bit more "perfected" than the PC versions for control issues. I think eventually there will be feats for both dragonborn and tiefling to take advantage of an aspect of their anatomy, be it a dragonborn finally capable of growing the wings his brethern have on page 87, or the tiefling gaining the ability to use his tail for an attack, in my game flavor reins supreme as long as it is realiztic for the game, so yeah, ask your dm if in your gam the tail can be used or is it about as useful as a salamander tail.....
I'm calling Racial Paragons for that, perhaps not feats.
I'm calling Racial Paragons for that, perhaps not feats.
Perhaps, perhaps not. We'll see when more books are released.
In any case; my 2nd/3.xth edition-style tiefling usually has her tail wrapped around her waist. (its the slender type of tail)
Imo; they should've kept the tiefling like it originally was. Dito for the eladrin. (what for eladrin are they supposed to be anyways? Brelani? Ghaele?)
Perhaps, perhaps not.We'll see when more books are released.In any case; my 2nd/3.xth edition-style tiefling usually has her tail wrapped around her waist. (its the slender type of tail)Imo; they should've kept the tiefling like it originally was.Dit
I don't really see why the dagger strapped to your (tiefling) tail couldn't be used for an attack. You can use the dagger held in your hand, can't you? So just use your tail-dagger INSTEAD of your "normal" one. This way, you'd get a nice touch to your character's fighting style without gaining more attacks or somehow unbalancing things. After all, it doesn't really matter how exactly your attack looks, does it?
I don't really see why the dagger strapped to your (tiefling) tail couldn't be used for an attack. You can use the dagger held in your hand, can't you? So just use your tail-dagger INSTEAD of your "normal" one. This way, you'd get a nice touch to you
I'd say a tiefling can't do it for the same reason a male (non-Dragonborn... maybe?) fighter can't strap a dagger to his anatomy and flail it around. It might deal damage, but chances are its going to hurt you more. And being non-prehensile the accuracy would be nothing if not negative.
If you want to use it, apply flavor of a rogue using it as part of their bluff check to make a distraction. :D
I'd say a tiefling can't do it for the same reason a male (non-Dragonborn... maybe?) fighter can't strap a dagger to his anatomy and flail it around. It might deal damage, but chances are its going to hurt you more. And being non-prehensile the acc
Okay the tail is not prehensile. There are some RL life, or least in the movies, example of how this can be possile. Some would grow long pony tails and braid in barbs, or small blades.
Heck, the braid is not even a limb that can be manipulated. I think it is reasonable to allow a tail to be able to slash with a strapped on blade. As suggested in a previous post it could replace a normal dagger attack for a bit of flare.
Sure, maybe it is not allowed via the rules. For a bit of color it would make a marvelous house rule.
Cheers!!
Okay the tail is not prehensile. There are some RL life, or least in the movies, example of how this can be possile. Some would grow long pony tails and braid in barbs, or small blades. Heck, the braid is not even a limb that can be manipulated.
ah man, that's one thing i absolutely hate about tieflings! they were always one of my very favorite races in 3.5. i loved darkness and the horns and it all just looked cool. now they are just....silly. a 5 foot long tail? honestly, it just doesnt seem to fit. i could get like a little pointed devil tail or something, but this big, fat tail as long as they are tall is too much for me. lol, though if it were prehensile it would be worth considering.
ah man, that's one thing i absolutely hate about tieflings! they were always one of my very favorite races in 3.5. i loved darkness and the horns and it all just looked cool.now they are just....silly. a 5 foot long tail? honestly, it just doesnt see
Then RP that your character is a freak, and was born without the tail(And maybe some extra toes), or the tail was cut off. Or the tiefling cut off their own tail, thinking that it just got in the way of things.
Then RP that your character is a freak, and was born without the tail(And maybe some extra toes), or the tail was cut off. Or the tiefling cut off their own tail, thinking that it just got in the way of things.
You need to understand that artists are hired to DRAW, not to know the rules. Thus the artist has no idea that tiefling don't have prehensile tails. Case in point I talked to a guy who drew the cyborg ninja in one of the Cyberpunk books and I wanted to know what cyberware the guy had on him. The artist had NO clue. He said he was told to draw a cyborg ninja and that's what he came up with. You CANNOT take the artwork as cannon. It's eye candy. That's it.
That word is spelled "canon," not "cannon." A cannon is a gun. Usually I won't correct spelling errors, but I see that one all over these boards and it bugs me.
That word is spelled "canon," not "cannon." A cannon is a gun. Usually I won't correct spelling errors, but I see that one all over these boards and it bugs me.
That word is spelled "canon," not "cannon." A cannon is a gun. Usually I won't correct spelling errors, but I see that one all over these boards and it bugs me.
And it bugs me you posted one sentence to correct my spelling instead of contributing something meaningful to this thread.
And it bugs me you posted one sentence to correct my spelling instead of contributing something meaningful to this thread.
I personally like the idea that if you ask your DM and he's like "that's badass to have you unsheathe a dagger with your tail" then do it. Unless your bringing this character to a con, then disregard subtle words that make the role-playing aspect of this Role-Playing Game less fun (as long as it's cool with the DM.) We're playing D&D because it's fun right? So go make an awesome character and exploit the hell out of the fact that your tiefling has unique control over his giant tail!
I personally like the idea that if you ask your DM and he's like "that's badass to have you unsheathe a dagger with your tail" then do it. Unless your bringing this character to a con, then disregard subtle words that make the role-playing aspect of
That word is spelled "canon," not "cannon." A cannon is a gun. Usually I won't correct spelling errors, but I see that one all over these boards and it bugs me.
AkumaDaimyo wrote:
And it bugs me you posted one sentence to correct my spelling instead of contributing something meaningful to this thread.
And it bugs me that two posts have been wasted in such a way.
I personally like the idea that if you ask your DM and he's like "that's badass to have you unsheathe a dagger with your tail" then do it. Unless your bringing this character to a con, then disregard subtle words that make the role-playing aspect of this Role-Playing Game less fun (as long as it's cool with the DM.) We're playing D&D because it's fun right?
Shouldn't really matter if you make a regular attack with a tail or with a hand. Just say it "counts as".
So go make an awesome character and exploit the hell out of the fact that your tiefling has unique control over his giant tail!
Nothing unique about it... If you can do it, then another tiefling probably can do so as well.
And it bugs me that two posts have been wasted in such a way.Shouldn't really matter if you make a regular attack with a tail or with a hand. Just say it "counts as".Nothing unique about it...If you can do it, then another tiefling probably can do so
XD I think you guys/gals might be streching it a bit...
Look up their origin...
In a nutshell, humans that in a way, fused with demonic powers...
so hey can demons control their tails?... somewhat, maybe a whack or wiggle it around to sme extent, but they're not prehensile... so they can't grab or lift things with them...
now back to the issue...
teiflings... I have a rogue tiefling myself and yes its a viable option straping a dagger on to his tail sure, to bring up your tail and grab the dagger with your hand... as any other minor action to unsheath a weapon... makes sense no?
there's also art of a teifling warlock with part of metalic armor covering the top of his tail...
so... maybe its not even a dagger, its just a piece of metal to keep it from being stepped on?
(randomly useful example) another option... so you can't weild anything with it... or use it as an extra storage slot?... hmmm
how about social situations outside combat?... use your 4-5' long tail to trip people?
:p
XDI think you guys/gals might be streching it a bit...Look up their origin...In a nutshell, humans that in a way, fused with demonic powers...so hey can demons control their tails?...somewhat, maybe a whack or wiggle it around to sme extent, but they
Might I suggest checking out the tail blade in the 3.x Savage Species book as a place to start at? It does exactly what you're looking for and would work with an almost direct transplant into 4th.
Might I suggest checking out the tail blade in the 3.x Savage Species book as a place to start at? It does exactly what you're looking for and would work with an almost direct transplant into 4th.
At first I was all 'Never! That's cheating! ZOMG HAX!' but then some posts on here reminded me of the best lesson I picked up from the 4e DMG (and managed not to have gleaned when starting out with the rules-heavy 3.5 DMG); it's better to find ways to say 'yes' than to know which rules justify your saying 'no'.
That considered, I'd let a player do anything they wanted with it, even say zie has a prehensile tail, provided zie promised not to do anything a tailless player could do. In return I'd try not to put zie in a situation where zie'd have to pretend not to have a prehensile tail in order to hold up zir end of the deal (like having zir captors tie zir hands and tail rather than forcing zie to conveniently, uncharacteristically 'forget' that zie could untie the knots with zir tail). Yeah, it's meta, but it also preserves balance while letting the player rock out with zir tail out.
At first I was all 'Never! That's cheating! ZOMG HAX!' but then some posts on here reminded me of the best lesson I picked up from the 4e DMG (and managed not to have gleaned when starting out with the rules-heavy 3.5 DMG); it's better to find ways
As I recall, playable races with a tail usable in combat often had to take a feat to be able to do so, didn't they?
Shouldn't the same apply here, even though I think that'd outstrip other feats in power...
As I recall, playable races with a tail usable in combat often had to take a feat to be able to do so, didn't they?Shouldn't the same apply here, even though I think that'd outstrip other feats in power...
As I recall, playable races with a tail usable in combat often had to take a feat to be able to do so, didn't they?
In D&D "Everything Must Be Represented By A Fiddly Little Godsdamned Rule" 3rd Edition, yes.
Shouldn't the same apply here, even though I think that'd outstrip other feats in power...
Not if its mechanical implementation is identical either way. Let the player attack with a 'tailblade' -- statted identically to attacking with a dagger -- just don't let them do anything that an identical-yet-tailless character with a dagger couldn't do.
In D&D "Everything Must Be Represented By A Fiddly Little Godsdamned Rule" 3rd Edition, yes.Not if its mechanical implementation is identical either way. Let the player attack with a 'tailblade' -- statted identically to attacking with a dagger -- j
I agree, it's one of those "doesn't hurt" kinda deals, so long as an especially cheesey player doesn't try to abuse it. I'd probably rule that it can be used instead of any other hand for [W] damage in melee, but not for powers.
It's not a useless appendage, but not very useful, either.
I agree, it's one of those "doesn't hurt" kinda deals, so long as an especially cheesey player doesn't try to abuse it. I'd probably rule that it can be used instead of any other hand for [W] damage in melee, but not for powers.It's not a useless app
Personally, I would have liked to have seen a prehensile tail, much like Trance's tail on the first season of Andromeda. Perhaps not strong enough to attack, but to pick up things, wrap around someone, and of course tend to wag and get in the way when the character is not thinking about it.
Personally, I would have liked to have seen a prehensile tail, much like Trance's tail on the first season of Andromeda. Perhaps not strong enough to attack, but to pick up things, wrap around someone, and of course tend to wag and get in the way whe
Meh, in fairness, even if you can't stab people with it it's hard to argue that a tail blade of some sort would be worthless. I mean, I know that *I* wouldn't try to grab a tail if the creature pulling it out of my hands would likely sever all my fingers.
Meh, in fairness, even if you can't stab people with it it's hard to argue that a tail blade of some sort would be worthless. I mean, I know that *I* wouldn't try to grab a tail if the creature pulling it out of my hands would likely sever all my fi
The ability to attack with a tail blade is by itself rather marginal (it lets you attack even when both hands are full -- yippee) and is thus probably a feat:
Tail Attack: you have learned to use an off-hand weapon attached to your tail. This is rarely relevant, but can be useful if both of your hands are occupied in other ways (for example, two implements, or an implement and a staff).
More sophisticated tricks would be power replacement feats, replacing one of your class-based encounter or daily powers.
The ability to attack with a tail blade is by itself rather marginal (it lets you attack even when both hands are full -- yippee) and is thus probably a feat:[list][*]Tail Attack: you have learned to use an off-hand weapon attached to your tail. This
Personally 2ed Tieflings...The whole ancient races and they are all brethren is rather weak...so on the opposite side of the coin are aasimars going to be a ancient race bred with the upperplanes and they are all brethren.
I prefer each tiefer is different approach. Decide what sort of Lower Planar you were mixed with and go from there...some have tails...some have hooves...some are slimy...some have feathers...etc
Some have normal tails...some have prehensile tails...
Just make it your own IMO and if you have not seen what is out there check out some of the old PS materials for ideas.
Here's my opinion. The PHB simply states the tail is non-prehensile. Which as other's pointed out means that it cannot be used to pick up things or to hold the Tiefling's weight from a branch or something. Although the PHB does not state any rules for using the tail to attack, this is no way means that it would not be able to. Non-prehensile does not mean that you don't have muscular control over your tail, it simply means that (probably do to limited flexability) you can not wrap it tight enough around something to hold it. So when a PC asked me if he could use his Tiefling's tail to attack. I did some research. Using both some 3.5 supplements as well as all available 4th edition supplements. I have one word for you. "Dragons". Dragon's tails are non-prehensile, yet they can still use it to attack... ergo Tieflings can use their tails to attack as a natural weapon! All the dragons in the 4th edition MM have been raised in size so that none are "medium" creatures. That's where my 3.5 came in handy with the "Creating Monsters" section. Which stated a medium creature's tail attack would deal 1d6+STR damage. So there you have it. I gave my PC the ability to use his tail as a weapon. Then he asked me what type of damage it would do. I told him, choose! I let him choose between bludgeoning or slashing at character creation but he had to keep which ever he choose. Why slashing? Because one of the Tieflings in the PHB seems to have a sharp boney ridge on the end of her tail.. thus slashing as each tiefling is different right? Finally if you don't wish to give your PC an extra basic attack to choose from (as I told him it cannot be used for powers) Then take a look at the dragon entries and have him choose 1 of their Tail at-will powers. Ex. (From Black) "Everytime an opponent misses, the dragon can use it's tail to attack as an immediate reaction at-will power" or the reds, ability to use it whenever someone flanks him... anyway there's my two cents
Here's my opinion. The PHB simply states the tail is non-prehensile. Which as other's pointed out means that it cannot be used to pick up things or to hold the Tiefling's weight from a branch or something. Although the PHB does not state any rules
Here's an idea, make a Racial feat for Tieflings (and maybe Dragonborn) to get more use out of a tail.
My current system of creating balanced monster races to it narrow their base qualities down to PC race standard, leaving many monsters feeling gimped. Then add a ton of racial feats that allow them to get the proper monster flavor and abilities.
Personaly I'm thinking of adding a heap of feats for Dragonborn (or their equivalent in my setting) and Tieflings (or their equivalent in my setting.) A feat for a prehensile tail sounds just right for Heroic with a few Str, Dex and/or Con prerequisites.
Just remember to keep those feats roughly on par with existing ones.
Here's an idea, make a Racial feat for Tieflings (and maybe Dragonborn) to get more use out of a tail.My current system of creating balanced monster races to it narrow their base qualities down to PC race standard, leaving many monsters feeling gimpe
You can always arrange with the DM a house rule that the tail attack is actually a RP attack. That is, you roll as if you were attacking with normal hand attack, but actually you spin and slam the target with your tail Maybe it is even possible to find a magic item (dagger) that you can attach to your tail, or if you have high strength / constitution you are able to lift or pull light items. RP it :D
You can always arrange with the DM a house rule that the tail attack is actually a RP attack. That is, you roll as if you were attacking with normal hand attack, but actually you spin and slam the target with your tail ;) Maybe it is even possible to
I just can't take them seriouly. Every time I see a lizard tail as long as a man, I can't help but think of this song:
"Does your tail hang low? Does it wobble to and fro? Can you tie it in a knot? Can you tie it in a bow? Can you throw it o'er your shoulder like a continental soldier? Does your tail hang low?
Does your tail hang high? Does it reach up to the sky? Does it droop when it is wet? Does it stiffen when it is dry? Can you semaphore your neighbour with a minimum of labour? Does your tail hang high?
Does your tail flip-flop? Can you use it for a mop? Is it striped on the bottom? Is it spikey at the top? Can you use it for a swatter? Can you use it for a blotter? Does your tail flip-flop?
Does your tail hang out? Can you waggle it about? Can you flip it up and down as you fly around the town? Can you shut him up for sure when you smack an awful bore? Does your tail hang out?"
The anatomy of it is easily as bad as "Dragonboobs."
[SIZE="7"]I HATE THENEW TIEFLING TAILS![/SIZE]I just can't take them seriouly.Every time I see a lizard tail as long as a man,I can't help but think of this song:"Does your tail hang low?Does it wobble to and fro?Can you tie it in a knot?Can you tie
O_O *Wondering if he should congratulate for a coherent poem or remind him of so called "artistic license" and "fantasy"*
Though I agree from a biological standpoint.
O_O*Wondering if he should congratulate for a coherent poem or remind him of so called "artistic license" and "fantasy"*[SIZE="1"]Though I agree from a biological standpoint.[/SIZE]
Maybe having a dagger strapped on to the tail is like punk or something. ? probably a style thing.
It's also probably a way to passively keep people from getting too close to them.
Maybe having a dagger strapped on to the tail is like punk or something. ? probably a style thing.It's also probably a way to passively keep people from getting too close to them.
Y'know... back in 3.x, it really wasn't a deal-breaker to give someone a natural attack. It's a weak attack form, completely nonmagical, as you can't enchant a piece of your body. You just did one or the other.
Since I don't have a problem with the idea of a thick, fleshy tail being able to do minor damage and very likely knock someone down, and it'd be weaker than other available weapons you can make trip attacks with, I don't see the problem.
It balances itself a bit, in my reckoning, since you can't use more than one weapon in a round anyway and 1d4 or even 1d6 is just regular weapon damage anyway.
I'd say make a feat, similar to the one that gives Gnoll Clawfighters their claws, to represent that idea of getting used to attacking with a part of your anatomy. Make it no higher than 1d6+Str with the target dropped prone if they fail either a save or maybe an opposed ability check.
It is the same, IMO, for the tail blade, you can either attack with the 1d8 longsword/mace in your hands or the 1d4 dagger attached to your tail, which you'd need special training to use properly.
Y'know... back in 3.x, it really wasn't a deal-breaker to give someone a natural attack. It's a weak attack form, completely nonmagical, as you can't enchant a piece of your body. You just did one or the other.Since I don't have a problem with the id
sounds like a flavor thing to me... kinda like using your legs to kick someone as a basic attack. Which, iirc, also isn't covered in the rules
just treat it as an off-hand weapon. And treat it exactly like an off-hand weapon. any TWF feats key off your tail dagger (your tail-blade allows you to parry and what not). You can't use a two-handed weapon and a tail-weapon (it causes you to overbalance). You can't benefit from only having a weapon in one hand if you have a tail-weapon (it causes you to overbalance).
The last two are possible candidates for feat or paragon path related bonuses, but if it's about flavor then it's flavor, mechanics shouldn't get in the way... or change.
sounds like a flavor thing to me... kinda like using your legs to kick someone as a basic attack. Which, iirc, also isn't covered in the rules :rolleyes:just treat it as an off-hand weapon. And treat it exactly like an off-hand weapon. any TWF feats
You don't even really have to limit how many weapons you can hold, since in 4e, you can only attack once in a round anyway. It doesn't matter if I've got knives in my tail, a sword in one hand, a club in the other, and I'm spitting blowdarts from a blowgun strapped to my face, I can only use one per round.
You don't even really have to limit how many weapons you can hold, since in 4e, you can only attack once in a round anyway. It doesn't matter if I've got knives in my tail, a sword in one hand, a club in the other, and I'm spitting blowdarts from a b
The problem with allowing it to count as an off-hand weapon while you're using a two-handed weapon is that it allows you to capitalize on all the benefits of TWF feats while using a two-handed weapon...which is only a bad thing because no one but the tieflings could do it. At the cost a racial feat, though, it might be that it wouldn't be too bad. You'd see far fewer sword and board tiefling fighters, though.
The problem with allowing it to count as an off-hand weapon while you're using a two-handed weapon is that it allows you to capitalize on all the benefits of TWF feats while using a two-handed weapon...which is only a bad thing because no one but the
The problem with allowing it to count as an off-hand weapon while you're using a two-handed weapon is that it allows you to capitalize on all the benefits of TWF feats while using a two-handed weapon...which is only a bad thing because no one but the tieflings could do it. At the cost a racial feat, though, it might be that it wouldn't be too bad. You'd see far fewer sword and board tiefling fighters, though.
me]st treat it as an off-hand weapon. And treat it exactly like an off-hand weapon. any TWF feats key off your tail dagger (your tail-blade allows you to parry and what not). You can't use a two-handed weapon and a tail-weapon (it causes you to overbalance). You can't benefit from only having a weapon in one hand if you have a tail-weapon (it causes you to overbalance).
/me sips some tea.
You were wrote:
st treat it as an off-hand weapon. And treat it exactly like an off-hand weapon. any TWF feats key off your tail dagger (your tail-blade allows you to parry and what not). You can't use a two-handed weapon and a tail-weapon (it causes you to overbalance). You can't benefit from only having a weapon in one hand if you have a tail-weapon (it causes you to overbalance).[/quote] /me sips some tea.
Your DM may be cool with allowing you to weild a weapon with your tail "in theory." By this I mean, you still can only hold two things at a time, and you can't attack when your hands are occupied.
I always allow stuff like that, as long as the player accepts that they don't actually get a bonus for it.
Your DM may be cool with allowing you to weild a weapon with your tail "in theory." By this I mean, you still can only hold two things at a time, and you can't attack when your hands are occupied. I always allow stuff like that, as long as the play
Basically, tie a weapon to the tail, do some fancy acrobatics to make it appear threatening and throw your opponent off-guard - get him worried about the weapon that doesn't matter so he forgets about the one that does.
The mechanics of this would be the once-per-encounter Bluff check to gain combat advantage.
I view it as a trick.Basically, tie a weapon to the tail, do some fancy acrobatics to make it appear threatening and throw your opponent off-guard - get him worried about the weapon that doesn't matter so he forgets about the one that does.The mechan
2ed Tieflings...The whole ancient races and they are all brethren is rather weak...so on the opposite side of the coin are aasimars going to be a ancient race bred with the upperplanes and they are all brethren.
