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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 5:07PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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I play an unaligned player in third edition I always played Neutral and really in the PHB I think it says something that works in your favor but is highly open to iterpertation. "You support law and order when doing so benefits you."
To me that says your overall a decent person but but you are not above doing something devious to achive a goal . Not to kill someone for getting anoying .
THis is from the discription of the evil Alignment discription.
"Evil characters use rules and order to maximize
personal gain. They don’t care whether laws hurt other
people. They support institutional structures that give
them power, even if that power comes at the expense
of others’ freedom. Slavery and rigid caste structures
are not only acceptable but desirable to evil characters,
as long as they are in a position to benefit from them."
That seems almost to be what he is doing.
This is from Chaotic Evil
"Chaotic evil characters have a complete disregard for
others. Each believes he or she is the only being that
matters and kills, steals, and betrays others to gain
power. Their word is meaningless and their actions
destructive. Their worldviews can be so warped that
they destroy anything and anyone that doesn’t directly
contribute to their interests."
All of this is ofcourse irrelivent because you high god DM in a game whare ANYTHING can happen.
If they are in a city maybe his reputation can start proceeding him through the trade routes. Maybe gaurds are alterted when he dose this by some magic? or maybe his deity(being unalinged) would see what he is doing as bad and alert the gaurds passively to punish him .
He seems to be getting arrogent about it so even in the wild bad things can happen to those who anger the gods. trees fall down and pin a leg or a passing Snake could just bite him and slither away .
these are all ways my dm uses to keep us from going overbord without even voicing it out of character unless we ask.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 5:13PM
#12
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A Chaotic Neutral player will set fire to Waterdeep's courthouse.
A Chaotic Evil player will set fire to Waterdeep's judges.
The CN player does not seek to kill, to him the fire is a protest. If a judge got caught in the fire and seriously burned or even killed, well it was a regrettable side effect of a greater deed.
The CE player sees that a building can be rebuilt and actively seeks to kill the people backing law. Taking a life isn't even important enough to factor into his decisions.
Unaligned has none of these distinctions. It is the 'easy-going' alignment for people who can't be bothered with a deeper character.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 5:23PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2008
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A Chaotic Neutral player will set fire to Waterdeep's courthouse.
A Chaotic Evil player will set fire to Waterdeep's judges.
Am I the only one that sees CN as your average hippy/liberal. And I mean that in good way.
CN would smoke Pot
CN Would Download pirate music
CN would Fudge his taxes
CN is not some nut case. He just sees it as his right to do what he will as that shall be the whole of the law!
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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 5:27PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jun 13, 2008
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A Chaotic Neutral player will set fire to Waterdeep's courthouse.
A Chaotic Evil player will set fire to Waterdeep's judges.
The NN got him beat, he sets fire to himself.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 5:36PM
#15
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Am I the only one that sees CN as your average hippy/liberal. And I mean that in good way.
CN would smoke Pot
CN Would Download pirate music
CN would Fudge his taxes
CN is some nut case. He just sees it as his right to do what he will as that shall be the whole of the law!
Strangely enough I would class this as CG.
Nothing all that evil here and no real attempt to force his belief in Chaos on others.
The NN got him beat, he sets fire to himself.
LOL:D
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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 5:49PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Sep 25, 2007
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I use the new alignment scale in a very simplified way to avoid all "ambguity" that players will try to find and exploit.
Lawful good = So good that you would never do anything shady unless that one "gray" act was guaranteed to save many people.
For example, you woul only ever commit a crime like petty theft if you were pick pocketing a masively destructive weapon from someone you knew was going to use it for evil.
Good = you do things to try to help people for the sake of helping people, and you prefer not to stray into any morally gray activities though you would if the end could actually justiify the means.
For example, you kill the bad guys because that makes sure the innocent are safe.
Unaligned = you help people for profit, and don't mind if you have to "get your hands dirty" to accomplish this.
Example: you kill the bad guys because you negotiated a 5 gold per head bounty in exchange for saving the village.
Evil = you take advantage when you can, and only do things that will benefit you.
Example: you make a deal with the raiders so you profit greatly from pretending to protect the village, and use the villagers view of you as a hero to get free food, lodging, and minor equipment for as long as they allow.
Chaotic evil = you conquer, pillage, and strike fear wherever and when ever you can. You feel no need to earn anything, and instead demand it and enforce your demands with violence and other methods of force.
Example: you see raiders plaguing a village as an opportunity to enslave the village and build the raiders into an army under your command to conquer other nearby lands until you build a tyranical empire.
But then... I also mention when I start a game whether I want people playing their characters as a band of heroes, a group of anti-hero mecernaries, or as villains/evil masterminds.
Careful, man. That much logic might be illegal on the internet. - Salla
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5 years ago ::
Jul 12, 2008 - 11:55PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Unaligned means that you are not particularly Good and you are not particularly Evil. It means that although you won't generally go to extreme lengths to do good things, you *also* generally won't do evil things. And definitely not obviously evil things on a continuing basis.
It also does not mean you can do whatever you feel like, without having to face the consequences of your actions.
Regardless of what it says on your character sheet, evil acts are still evil.
Killing people because they annoyed you is evil.
Trying to extort gear and money from random npc's and then killing them because they won't give you their stuff is evil.
The character lacks all concern for the welfare of others. This is the hallmark of evil behavior.
Don't bother to discuss it with him, just tell him his character is evil.
And start making sure he ends up facing the consequences of his actions - killing npc's in a populated area will bring down whatever passes for militia/police/guards in the area, as well as turning the general populace against him and the rest of the party.
Spoiler:
Show
I am the Magic Man.
(Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.)
I am the Lawnmower Man.
(I AM GOD HERE!)
I am the Skull God.
(Koo Koo Ka Choo)
There are reasons they call me Mad...
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5 years ago ::
Jul 13, 2008 - 5:42PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2008
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I have a couple questions/points that may help. First, are you allowing evil? I will agree with others that he does sound more evil than Unaligned to me, but I won't just add to the already lengthy discussion on that front. If that's true though, just have him be evil and let him play as he is. Alignment is mostly just a descriptor now anyway, even more than before. Now, if the issue here is that you said "no evil characters" and you see him as abusing that, that's a separate problem.
In that case, you can bring up that his behavior is, while potentially justifiable as Unaligned, still doing exactly what you wanted to avoid by not having evil characters. It's likely disruptive to the game and players. When you said "no evil", it was to avoid certain problems, and him finding a technical loophole really shouldn't invalidate your intentions for your own game. On top of all of this, I think most good characters wouldn't see any difference between him and most evil characters, and would in fact see him as more reprehensible than some of them. This means that his technical alignment helps neither with in world situations nor out of character ones, and is thus irrelevant. Basically, actions speak louder than alignments.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 13, 2008 - 6:48PM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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Really, whether he is unaligned or evil is irrelevant, since alignment no longer has any mechanical effects on the game. That said, you should probably tell him that he is now evil, as his actions are obviously evil.
In my game, there is no alignment, period. The best way to handle this is just like the real world, actions have consequences. Maybe someone reports him to the town watch. Maybe a band of adventuring heroes arrives in town to end his reign of terror. Whatever the case, most players learn their lessons after going through a few character sheets.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls.
God of ownership and possession.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 13, 2008 - 7:27PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Aug 28, 2007
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I have completely removed alignment from my game for that very reason. There's no more mechanical need for alignment anyways, and I don't need players using ambiguous alignments to justify various actions.
If I were ever to need to know a character's alignment for some in-game, mechanical reason, it doesn't matter what's written on their character sheet. I decide what their alignment is for the purpose of that moment, based on their actions, intents, and general behavior.
I tend to agree.
My advice:
Alignment is trouble when you have to tell a player that cold blooded murder is Evil. Starts all sorts of conflict you do not need.
So, ignore alignment as a player behavior guide, and instead, use it as a DM reactionary guide.
The dm can have a cleric's god hold back power.
The Dm can have an angry posse hunt down a murderous player character.
In essense, action reaction, instead of telling the player what to do.
But remember, the 'reactions' must be as fair and logical as possible.
The DM MUST be fair and impartial, at least as far as a troub lesome player allows this.
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