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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 9:25AM
#101
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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I too have trouble with unaligned players.
Their characters, however, not so much...
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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 9:28AM
#102
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2008
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I say I have a character like that to a point, he gets into fights alot, but he never kills unless they intend to kill him, and he pritty much never steals/kills for an item unless it is an item that the NEED for the good of the mission [like the key to a lost tomb or the artifact that will save the town] and the owner does not wish to givve it to you [for one reason or another.]
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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 7:01PM
#103
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That's where the guards come in.
Yes, but then it becomes an encounter, which makes it fine. I like that the new setup is more of a 'no risk? no reward' kinda setup. Sure you can roll shopkeepers. In the middle of the conversation when you're buying your gear, you can reach over and kill the shopkeeper. But unless its been 'vetted' as an encounter, surprise, you're not getting anything worthwhile out of it. The GM is also under no obligation to MAKE something an encounter, just so you can get loot and xp. A little heavy handed sure, but its great tool against those who want to be douchebags and just slaughter town NPCs in hopes of easy lewt.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 7:17PM
#104
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2008
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Yes, but then it becomes an encounter, which makes it fine. I like that the new setup is more of a 'no risk? no reward' kinda setup. Sure you can roll shopkeepers. In the middle of the conversation when you're buying your gear, you can reach over and kill the shopkeeper. But unless its been 'vetted' as an encounter, surprise, you're not getting anything worthwhile out of it. The GM is also under no obligation to MAKE something an encounter, just so you can get loot and xp. A little heavy handed sure, but its great tool against those who want to be douchebags and just slaughter town NPCs in hopes of easy lewt.
I meant the guards come in, see the crime, and mark them as "Wanted Status." So they can't show there face in public without town guards right around the corner because someone reconized them and yelled for help.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 8:19PM
#105
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Date Joined:
Nov 22, 2007
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Yes, but then it becomes an encounter, which makes it fine. I like that the new setup is more of a 'no risk? no reward' kinda setup. Sure you can roll shopkeepers. In the middle of the conversation when you're buying your gear, you can reach over and kill the shopkeeper. But unless its been 'vetted' as an encounter, surprise, you're not getting anything worthwhile out of it. The GM is also under no obligation to MAKE something an encounter, just so you can get loot and xp. A little heavy handed sure, but its great tool against those who want to be douchebags and just slaughter town NPCs in hopes of easy lewt.
The problem with this is now your shops only have stuff in them when the PC's want to buy something and never when they rob it.
It takes away from believability in my eyes. Instead let them loot the shop only to walk out and be surrounded by the guards another NPC called while he was busy beating the snot out of the shopkeeper.
If he manages not to get imprisoned for his actions he'll never be welcome in town again.
He can argue that he's not evil all he wants while he sits in his cold dank cell or runs from the city that has now begun to hire heroic bounty hunters to track him down.
Brave Knights of W.T.F. Gryphon Helm Winner.
Edition wars kill players, this will kill Dungeons and Dragons.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 8:26PM
#106
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2008
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or the White Pheonix Knighthood I am currently makeing.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 10:16PM
#107
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Date Joined:
Dec 27, 2006
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Keep in mind, Unaligned IS pretty bad. Unaligned isn't necessarily any less evil than evil. Just when they do it, its nothing personal. Look at Sorrowsworn. Their mission is to stop your character (and everyone else) from cheating death (ie. raise dead or achieving immortality at level 30) and taunt and torment their victims. However, this guy you speak of is unquestionably evil, because he does it for kicks rather than duty. Ras al'Ghul is also unaligned (look at the motives of Shadar-Kai), etc.
Basically, to be Unaligned and behave in an otherwise evil fashion (murder, etc.) to quote an oldie but goodie you have to be "just doing your job." Evil characters actually do evil things for profit and pleasure. The unaligned excuse only works if the character is doing it for some kind of greater good (or greater cause). Extremists only degenerate into evil territory if they start to like it.
Conversely, the "puritannical fallbait paladin" like Miko from OotS and the Knights Templar cliche, is generally going to be unaligned instead of good or evil simply because if you aren't motivated to protect life and freedom you're not good, but you're not necessarily evil unless you're burning witches out of sadistic pleasure. This, actually, is a HUGE departure from 3E, because in 4E, alignments are about ends, not means (which is why there's no CG or LE)
Of course, no one can tell what alignment anyone else is and there's no powers that work off of it, so why does it matter what is put on their CS?
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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 10:28PM
#108
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Date Joined:
May 14, 2008
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Keep in mind, Unaligned IS pretty bad. Unaligned isn't necessarily any less evil than evil. Just when they do it, its nothing personal. Look at Sorrowsworn. Their mission is to stop your character (and everyone else) from cheating death (ie. raise dead or achieving immortality at level 30) and taunt and torment their victims. However, this guy you speak of is unquestionably evil, because he does it for kicks rather than duty. Ras al'Ghul is also unaligned (look at the motives of Shadar-Kai), etc.
Well, look at were the Shadar-Kai LIVE, wouldn't you be messed up too if you lived in the shadowfell? [I mean just look at it for peat sake.]
Raven Queen isn't evil, protecting the mortals from the curse of the undead is a good act [would you like to be attacked by a zombie or ghost os somthing?] But she also thinks death is sacride and needs to be proseved, otherwise, it would upset the balance of nature and she might be unable to protect you from the Undead Curse if you get Revived.
Immortality at lvl 30.... do you even know how you obtain it? You don't "Live forever" parsay, but you get to be a legend and never have to worry about you name being forgotten. Maybe if you were a Demigod, but why would a Deity try and stop you from claiming your haritige? Unless that is, you going to be a Diety of Undead and rain undead onto villages and creat mass panic.
All in all, you blameing somthing evil on Unaligned [Shadar-kai cant help they were raised in a place like the shadowfell, it's like saying that the underdeep is Unaligned and Drows are mostly unaligned.] Being unaligned doen not = killing and hurting, nor does it mean that you help and heal. Just means you dont see why you hav to desided because both give the same and share the same end, you don't see the diffrence, or you are an animal. I mean come on, do you see little raindear going from town to town ransaking and murdering towns folk? I dont really think so, somtimes a tiger, but thats because it needs food and not because it like to.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 22, 2008 - 11:18PM
#109
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Date Joined:
Sep 18, 2007
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Depends on the reason why they steal said object.
Being unaligned(Chaotic neutral) isn't as easy to play as some thing.
Doing things simply for fun that doesn't really hurt anyone = chaotic neutral.
Doing the same while hurting someone = evil.
Is a NPC looking at your in a funny way? Or annoying you? Steal his hat, wear it inside out and parade it around town. That's chaotic neutral/unaligned.
More likely attacked on sight imo.
Maybe another adventuring group will come after that character.
No. Stealing is always evil because it always harms someone, and shows a complete disregard for anyone but yourself.
Good people would ask for help. Evil bastards just take.
Good people ask people to stop being annoying. unaligned people leave. Evil people punch them in the face.
Evil is self serving, petty, violent and disrepectful.
Unaligned is inactive, passive, and noncommited. The person that doesn't help someone that is in trouble is unaligned, the one that laughs or checks teh body for spare change is Evil, the one that breaks up the fight is Good.
It's simple.
Your player is playing an Evil character. There's no two ways about this.
ONLY EVIL PEOPLE KILL OTHERS FOR SOMETHING AS STUPID AS ANNOYING THEM.
Hell only Evil people kill others for anything other than self defence. Good people kill as a last resort, unaligned kill for the same reason because they have to, they'll just take that route sooner and with less guilt, and evil does it because they want to.
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5 years ago ::
Jul 23, 2008 - 12:19AM
#110
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2008
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Slap a couple of 4 figure XP penalties on this fella, and he'll wise up quick.
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