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5 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2008 - 2:46PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2007
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But I want a 500 page book for only $9.99.  Seriously though what are people expectations for a company inregards to how they're suppose to make money? Admitily it does suck that there are some things we can't do in 4e (oppss messed up I guess. Going by the board consensus I'm suppose to be using $e not 4e) that we used to be able to due in 3.x but haven't we gain some things in 4e that were not present in 3.x?
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5 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2008 - 2:56PM
#12
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Have you seen the size of the PHB? It's huge, more than 300 pages, is imposible to put everything in just one book. You'll get your necromancers in it's just time.
Don't you get it? He wants 4E updates of 8 years worth of options and evolution right now! And because WotC has not provided it all in the initial release they are evil power hungry money grubbing super-villains.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2008 - 7:09AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Sep 30, 2007
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Don't you get it? He wants 4E updates of 8 years worth of options and evolution right now! And because WotC has not provided it all in the initial release they are evil power hungry money grubbing super-villains.
I'd enjoy a Villain's Handbook for players who want to be evil.
Same format as the original book (minus the rules, perhaps), but focused on the evil side of things.
That'd be pretty cool. Make it a full blown book, and not some half-assed side bar in the original books.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2008 - 8:15AM
#14
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I'd enjoy a Villain's Handbook for players who want to be evil.
Same format as the original book (minus the rules, perhaps), but focused on the evil side of things.
That'd be pretty cool. Make it a full blown book, and not some half-assed side bar in the original books.
So you want a full book about evil PC, I have to admit that sounds pretty cool... Is a book that I'll definitely buy.
But you have to admit that demanding something like that when the game is just starting is very... well... childish of you...
They can't add everything everyone wants on the first try is just no reasonable to expect that. Just be patient, enjoy what you have right now and wait for the next "libris mortis" full of necromantic evilness.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 16, 2008 - 2:00AM
#15
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Well, 1st ed managed to have assassins, piles of evil wizard and cleric spells, both imps and quasits to be your little winged minions, and did it quite neatly in three books with an equal or lesser page count.
I don't think it's space limitations so much as marketing and marketing politics. Wizards, if you remember, had to airbrush out the inverted pentacle on the "Unholy Strength" card when reprinting to make a version acceptable to be carried in Walmart.
I expect we'll have our Book of Vile Darkness eventually, along with the Books of Mild Grayness, which will be carried by specialist and hobby stores as well as giant etailers like Amazon that don't have to bother with a "family" image, which is basically code for saying that they don't have a large physical presence in the Bible Belt and don't need to worry about protests.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 16, 2008 - 10:17AM
#16
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Amusing to read how people rant on about what we supposedly mean...
8 years of options and evolution? Please... I only want features that have been basic for a while provided in the core books so I can play it from the get go without having to buy additional "core books" or use home rules. You don't need heaps of books to make a game. I don't want huge bloated books that you can't manage either, but core rulebooks that give a fair amount of options from the start. Although I haven't read through all the books I've skimmed over quite a bit of it (must admit I almost stopped at some places, seeing what they'd done).
The suggestion about an optional book for evil adventurers is a good one, and I'd support that as an optional book. I never really play evil campaigns, but some characters can still be evil, so I want that possibility without shelling out for a new book. I'm not saying that Wizards of the Coast are money hungry villains, although they want to make money just as much as anyone. I'm simply saying that they've put up a strategy on how to publish their material that I'm not entirely comfortable with.
Hopefully you understand better what I mean this time.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 16, 2008 - 1:30PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Jan 25, 2007
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I'd enjoy a Villain's Handbook for players who want to be evil.
Same format as the original book (minus the rules, perhaps), but focused on the evil side of things.
That'd be pretty cool. Make it a full blown book, and not some half-assed side bar in the original books.
A badguys guidebook would be pretty interesting. Make it mostly fluff, with mechanical stuff like powers and feats that are staples of non-heroic types. And make the book cover 'anti-heroes' as well as outright evil villains. I like it.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 16, 2008 - 5:55PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Oct 27, 2007
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I would suggest that Evil Clerics do NOT deal Necrotic Damage. For the same reason that 3.0+ Evil Clerics where real bad PC's they designed some monsters to be weak against radiant damage and strong against Necrotic, but nowhere near the number of opposite. That is, few monster that have radiant resistenace and necrotic vulnerability. So instead, use shadow and fire combo damage like the Orcus Priest. That way you can still deal normal damage, have an evil fluff, and not much really changes mechanicly, though over time you can see the difference in fights.
The other reason is because Evil PC's often don't fight good NPC's, they fight other evil NPC's.
Also, consider adding the Deathmaster Template in DMG. NPC only craptasticness or not.
For the most part, when WotC says they listen to their fans, what they mean is they listen to people that play RPGA, where they have already told those players what they can and can not think, not all those "other people".
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5 years ago ::
Jun 17, 2008 - 5:24AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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Well I think you have to keep in mind that 4E is designed with the mindset it will be a heroic fantasy adventure game. The primary goal of design was to make sure that worked well first. Non-heroic and outright evil PC's will come later, if at all. They just arn't a design priority.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 17, 2008 - 7:34AM
#20
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2003
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Well, that's something specifically that 4e doesn't want -- controlling masses of minions. It lets one player monopolize the table. That's why rebuke undead is out.
As cool as it is and looks to summon monsters and create undead (and place and move the minis around!) to fight for you, the side effects on gameplay were impractical and significantly unbalancing. Just took too much time, and made one player very strong with monsters at his fingertips. Not their fault, summoning/creation of monster allies was incredibly powerful.
But I like the focus in 4e back on PCs relying on their own abilities and one another (along with their turns not lasting forever), and not their animal companions, familiars, mounts, summoned monsters or created undead. We'll probably see support for that at some point... but I shudder to think of all the work it will take to really try to balance these "extra PC-like allies" in the game. Again, for all their balance headaches, the short term solution is simple and brilliant - just leave them out of the game.
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