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Yes since the powers are so limited in 4e, giving everyon a chance to rechoose their powers after every rest isn't too much of an issue I would think. However that really doesn't help fix the wizard issue. Even if you knew every single power, it's like a sorcerer...only worse still. Like I said, I can search out all 4 forgotten lore...one for fire/lightning/ice/force each. Really honestly, kinda dumb. It helps a little...but not enough.

But see, I'm over the patching mentality. It's bad enough that they are using patching on BOOKS, but they want to charge for it?!? Yeah I got suckered into that with 3e (and I should have known better since I refuse to get suckered into it with windows), but I'm over it. I'm not gonna pay extra money to get what I should have gotten when I paid my 35 bucks. In fact at this point, I don't think I'll even participate in 4.5 because I'm just REALLY that annoyed by this mentality. Too bad I'm in the minority and people will continue to buy new and shiny so I can't really blame wizards for doing it. I do blame us, the gamers for putting up with this BS however. We should have told them no, bad monkey back then and then, maybe we would have had a complete 4e release instead of this.

It's like the MMO world. Remeber when ultima online came on and they charged you 10 bucks more then a normal game AND charge monthly fee? Imagine if people were smart and balked at that. You want me to pay 60 bucks for something that is useless unless I pay you MORE money?!? If gamers had stood up and said no, this is DUMB, I don't care how shiny it is, we just won't stand to be outright ripped off, then all the MMO that followed wouldn't be charging both.

But hey, we're dumb. Even me, I did the 3ed stuff. Even if I do have fun this weekend, I'm not buying beyond the 3 books. In fact since I plan on not really running any 4E games, just the PHB most likely. So what else they maybe be releasing is kinda moot unless 4e takes hold in my groups. That however is very unlikely as 3/4 of the people who tried it in our gameing circle have said how much they hate it and the other 1/4 wasn't excited enough about it to actually start a 4e game. I think 1 person REALLY liked it and we kinda ignore her as she is a WOW addict anyways and almost never makes it to game.

On the plus side, 4e has made some of the people wanna play 1st and 2nd ed again...which is fine with me since I actually like those best anyways hehe.

AdrianLP wrote:

I tend to agree. But you could just make up powers.

Or I could spend that time playing 1st 2nd and 3rd ed . Although I suppose going through the 3.5 PHB and spell compendium and redoing all of them to 4e as a direct port wouldn't be too hard...it'd just make the wizard REALLY broken and the cleric into a full blown cheese monkey.

OrcishLibrarian wrote:

Given that most of the quick-use stuff we see are attack powers and even the 'utility' ones have primarily short-term combat applications, I wouldn't be surprised to see most of the real utility stuff eventually ending up as rituals. Whether or not that helps the wizard in particular shine remains to be seen -- the class is one of currently only two that doesn't have to spend a feat on gaining the ability to perform rituals, starts off with three of them right off the bat, and occasionally discovers another one for free via level advancement, but depending on how much money you find you have to invest in gear I'm not sure how much really remains for buying more rituals (and components) on top of that.

Yes rituals cover most utility. For example about half the school of illusion is covered by 3 rituals. The other thing is that Wizards can have every ritual in the game with a single feat, taking Nature, Religion as class skills and grabbing Heal with a feat.

Which suddenly reminds me -- no arcane spell failure anymore, right? That means a wizard can now in principle wear any armor so long as he or she doesn't mind the nonproficiency penalty (or else spending the feats)...

Yep, though being nonproficient is a lot like missing with all your spells. Expect many Wizards to upgrade to leather though.

Reinos wrote:

umm I could be wrong but it would seem that the basis of the 4th edition rules force the group to depend on eachother more than in previous editions. I cant tell you how happy that makes me. if the wizards did in fact get a nerf then that is ok because they seem to stand pretty solid in 4th ed. I know a few powerbuild sorcerer and wizzards that could be made in third edition and possibly 3.5 with out much tailoring. so a wizard class that can stand solid with out being the most powerful one in the group is refreshing.

Same here.

@ Cold Napalm: What would you prefer for your wizards? A return to Vancian spellcasting?