|
5 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2008 - 4:32AM
#21
|
Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2007
|
I wouldn't be that surprised to see a few "save or dies" return in Arcane Power. But they wouldn't be the 3e-cheese effects. They'd work more like the powers some of the monsters have (Beholders, Bodaks, Orcus). Either death after two or three failed saving throws, or reduction to 0 hit points, which means you're not screwed just yet.
In fact, I've been working on a homebrew 4e draft of Wail of the Banshee modeled around such monsters' "save or dies." Obviously, it's a Wizard Daily 29.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 01, 2008 - 5:31AM
#22
|
Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2008
|
Playing KotS, wizard was the key player. Blowing up waves of 'binions' made a huge difference in the outcome.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 02, 2008 - 1:32PM
#23
|
|
|
The thing about previous editions version of Wizards was that they were specifically balanced to be really vulnerable, easy to kill, and have absolutely no power at level 1 to make up their godly powers and versatility at higher levels. The problem with that it makes wizards a lot less fun at level 1, but trivializes the skills and abilities of almost everyone else at higher levels. 4th Edition totally redesigned the Wizard Power scheme. You no longer are the vulnerable and weak cripple that the party takes along out of mercy until you finally hatch and make the rest of them worthless. You pull your weight at the beginning, and are closer to being balanced at the end (but still with cool tricks). This is the way I see it: Pros of 4th:
- Wizards are no longer likely to die from a single normal hit from a level 1 monster.
- Wizards can cast way more spells at level 1 (and the lowest levels) than they could in previous versions. (No more, "Ok, I cast my 1 spell... that's it for me today)
- A Level 1 wizard is much more fun, overall (because of the previous 2 pros)
- Wizards still have access to a lot of spells, as Rituals, even though they take longer to cast.
- Wizards still have access to choose from more Daily Powers than any other class, which can be expanded even further by a feat.
- Other classes have lots of fun powers at lower levels and higher levels now as well.
Cons of 4th:
- Wizards don't have the huge number of tricks up their sleeves at higher levels.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 3:42PM
#24
|
|
|
i think people will go "uhhhh...." when they see that the spell fireball does 3d6 damage, and it never improves.
Lost a little bit of kick I'd say
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 04, 2008 - 3:51PM
#25
|
Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2006
|
You can still lock someone in a box of ice while being grappled by Edvards and stuck in a life draining web while on fire. In a single turn.
Well... At least we got custom avatars....
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 05, 2008 - 8:45AM
#26
|
|
|
i think people will go "uhhhh...." when they see that the spell fireball does 3d6 damage, and it never improves.
Lost a little bit of kick I'd say
Strange, I swap mine out for a bigger boomkin when it becomes obsolete. Don't you?
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 06, 2008 - 11:29AM
#27
|
Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2003
|
I don't have access to any of the 4th ed classes, so I'm not sure how strong the wizard class is or is not, but IMO if he is weaker or the same power level as 3.5 then his is seriously weak. IMO 3.5 striped the wizard badly.
don't take this badly but if you think wizards are weak, you don't know how to play a wizard.
as a DM, i have challenged my group, my wizard against them.
i made a big mess involving a lot of PC pieces flying everywhere.
we were all lvl 15 and the group was 5 persons strong. my wizard butchered them real bad.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 11:11AM
#28
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
My concern is not that wizards can't blow things up. They could before and they can now.
If you enjoyed almost any other aspect of playing a wizard, however, it's gone. My impression is that the designers wanted every character to be limited as much as possible to powers that can work in the video game version.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 6:07PM
#29
|
Date Joined:
Dec 25, 2005
|
My concern is not that wizards can't blow things up. They could before and they can now.
If you enjoyed almost any other aspect of playing a wizard, however, it's gone. My impression is that the designers wanted every character to be limited as much as possible to powers that can work in the video game version.
I don't think it's that as much as how powers are for combat and rituals are for out of combat. The 4e Wizard has to be balanced and playable at all levels. Putting what 3.5 considered utility spells in as powers would have made them very weak. That said, I think rituals are more than going to make up for the loss in flexibility, more so as new rituals are added.
|
|
|
|
5 years ago ::
Jun 08, 2008 - 6:26PM
#30
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
I don't think it's that as much as how powers are for combat and rituals are for out of combat. The 4e Wizard has to be balanced and playable at all levels. Putting what 3.5 considered utility spells in as powers would have made them very weak. That said, I think rituals are more than going to make up for the loss in flexibility, more so as new rituals are added.
Thanks for the answer, mongo. That is obviously what the designers had in mind. I just feel they went too far.
I prefer having the option of a mage who is FAR more subtle than is even possible here. I had characters and NPCs in v3.5 who specialized and listed evocation spells as one of their prohibited schools. Now, almost all spells are elemental, force, or necrotic attacks. Protections, conjurations, illusions, transmutations, enchantments - gone almost entirely. Time consuming and expensive rituals with powers far diminished from previous versions don't make up for that in any way to me.
I'm willing to see how the game plays, but the response given (in pretty much all threads, not just here) that there will be more $35 books coming out later that might improve identified problems and weaknesses isn't of much comfort.
|
|
|
